Roli Seaboard RISE

[BONES]

As promised, here is my initial experience with my new Seaboard Rise 25. The software download was massive (nearly 3Gb) but I did it at work so it was easy enough. Installing it all was simple and painless, as was authorising everything. When I attached the Rise and opened Equator, it worked perfectly straight away and I spent a couple of hours just playing the presets. It was absolutely phenomenal, everything I was hoping it would be.

I very quickly developed a new playing style, where my hands basically rest on the keys and I just press down to play, as opposed to the "death from above" method I've always used to play a normal keyboard. I've done this because I found hitting the keys in the right spot the way I normally play didn't work very well. This new playing style works much better and feels natural (a bit like touch typing).

Without having to read the manual, I worked out how to get it to play standard VSTi in Orion, which it does as well as any other controller. However, last night I encountered a problem where it wouldn't play adjacent notes, which I noticed from here is a common issue. Well, I think I may have worked out why - I had the Rise back in MPE mode but the Dashboard was still set to normal MIDI. This meant I could play Equator (standalone) with MPE but it would still also play my VSTi in Orion. Once I aligned them both to MPE, this problem seemed to go away.

The only other annoyance is that there doesn't seem to be a downloadable manual, so I have to have an internet connection to learn the ins and outs of the whole thing. I'd much rather a PDF manual that I could print out and refer to at any time, without having to cover up my other software UIs or chew up my precious bandwidth.

I do have a question, though. I'm sure I read somewhere that there is an Equator VSTi version but I can't find it anywhere. If there is one, how do I get hold of it because, at the moment, Equator hogs my ASIO drive and I have to run Orion through DirectX or MME, which is less than optimal.

Overall, I am very happy with my purchase. It is a gorgeous thing that just screams out to be used. I am going to put both my Minilogue and Monologue up on eBay to pay for it and it feels like a very fair trade to me. Down the line I can see it making my Ultranova redundant, too, but it will be much harder to part with that beauty than with the Korgs.

[deastman]

I can't remember for certain because it has been a while, but I thought the VSTi version of Equator installed along with the rest of it. But I also seem to recall it installing in an odd place. You might want to check and see if it needs to be manually moved to your VST folder.

[BONES]

Yeah, that could be it because they don't give you any opportunity to select an install path for anything and the instructions for doing all that don't match what you actually have to do, in that they say there is just one download of everything but in reality you have to download things separately. I had a quick look the other day when I installed it all but I might have to go over it more closely tonight. Thanks for the quick response.

[zerocrossing]

Yeah, that could be it because they don't give you any opportunity to select an install path for anything and the instructions for doing all that don't match what you actually have to do, in that they say there is just one download of everything but in reality you have to download things separately. I had a quick look the other day when I installed it all but I might have to go over it more closely tonight. Thanks for the quick response.

Yeah, it's been a while for me and I vaguely remember there was a bit of an issue finding the Equator VST... I forget what it was, but don't worry. I find their online FAQ to be really good, and usually a quick Google search finds me the answers I need.

My complaints about the Rise does't have anything to do with Equator or the hardware. My complaints lie in the control app. I usually have to change 3-4 settings depending on what instrument, hardware or software, I want to control... and there are no presets. What? Yeah, the simplest thing in the world. I made a request a while ago and they responded that it seemed like a great idea to them... and then nothing.

My other issue is with Ableton Live. Not only does it filter out polyphonic aftertouch, but it does not support MPE. F'n stupid, especially considering THEY MAKE A POLYPHONIC AFTERTOUCH ENABLED CONTROLLER. So, what I've done is made a bunch of templates that have groups of the same plug in running in mono mode. Each set to receive a different MIDI channel from the Rise. Works like a charm, but it's a PITA.

I think I'll get an NF-1m this year, as Modor is one of the only synth developers that seem eager to support the new standard. I tried using my two Tetras but setting them up to play as 8 separate instruments was a hassle. Tomorrow I'm going to give the Tempest a try and see how that works. I imagine it should be pretty easy, considering how each pad can hold a single voice.

So, the Rise rules... now let's just hope the rest of the world catches up.

[BONES]

Something I noticed in almost every review were complaints about Equator being a CPU hog. So it was one of the first things I tested and even sliding my fingers around with 8 notes playing I couldn't get the CPU load over 10% on my Core i7 (U Series) laptop. Is it maybe just a Mac thing?

I hadn't really thought about MPE support in Orion. I'd kind of figured it would just pass everything straight through without trying to do anything to it. I'll find out tonight, I suppose. If it doesn't work, I might have to try using two different ASIO devices. I can run Orion into my mixer and the standalone Equator through my Ultranova or something. I've got Ableton 9 Lite and the 8 track Bitwig that came with the Rise but I'm too old and too set in my ways to be learning a new, inferior host at this point in time. Much better to find a hardware solution I can live with.

[himalaya]

However, last night I encountered a problem where it wouldn't play adjacent notes, which I noticed from here is a common issue. Well, I think I may have worked out why - I had the Rise back in MPE mode but the Dashboard was still set to normal MIDI. This meant I could play Equator (standalone) with MPE but it would still also play my VSTi in Orion. Once I aligned them both to MPE, this problem seemed to go away.

Have you discovered the GLIDE expression fader yet? This allows you to control how pitch responds on the RISE, and can be set to full glide (no pitch rounding) and then to varying amounts of pitch-rounding. Then, once the fader is set slightly below the full range you enter a different mode, where you can play adjacent notes and still get smooth glide on the ribbon. This mode combines two separate pitch-control modes, in a way. Set this fader all the way down and you get full pitch quantisation which in effect makes the RISE behave like a normal midi keyboard.

This fader is great for people who would want to make it easier to stay in tune, just set it below full range and all notes will be rounded automatically, how much depends how 'low' the fader is set.

[himalaya]

I very quickly developed a new playing style, where my hands basically rest on the keys and I just press down to play, as opposed to the "death from above" method I've always used to play a normal keyboard. I've done this because I found hitting the keys in the right spot the way I normally play didn't work very well. This new playing style works much better and feels natural (a bit like touch typing).
.

Yes! That's exactly how to play the RISE. It really needs this more sensitive approach. This is so important, mostly because if people hit the RISE keys like they would a normal keyboard, they will reach the full range of pressure modulation and then won't be able to add any more. Pressure on the Seaboard is of the continuous* variety, so it really pays to press lightly, since then the sound will respond to pressure modulation in a natural and fluid manner.

It is also important becouse the sound can be transformed drastically with pressure, so if someone selects a patch with a description like 'dark pad' but whacks the keys hard, they will hear the filter open thus making the sound bright, and then a conclusion: but this sound is not 'dark'!

continuous* - there is a trick to make it respond like traditional aftertouch.

[BONES]

I'll look into the Glide control tonight. Thanks heaps for the tip.

Another thing that occurred to me today, when thinking about Rise v Block, is that the Block is cheaper but I am not at all sure it is anything like better value. With FXpansion Strobe 2 and the full Equator synth, you get something like $300 worth of software included and, to get all the controls on the left side of the Rise, you'd need to buy at least one other Block device, probably two, at which point the Rise starts to look like the better buy.

[bg]

Have you discovered the GLIDE expression fader yet? This allows you to control how pitch responds on the RISE, and can be set to full glide (no pitch rounding) and then to varying amounts of pitch-rounding. Then, once the fader is set slightly below the full range you enter a different mode, where you can play adjacent notes and still get smooth glide on the ribbon. This mode combines two separate pitch-control modes, in a way. Set this fader all the way down and you get full pitch quantisation which in effect makes the RISE behave like a normal midi keyboard.

This fader is great for people who would want to make it easier to stay in tune, just set it below full range and all notes will be rounded automatically, how much depends how 'low' the fader is set.

When the GLIDE fader is all the way down are the upper and lower ribbons also fully pitch-quantized, as the keywaves are?

[himalaya]

Correct.

The other expression faders also help to tune modulation in various ways. The SLIDE fader 'compacts' the modulation range (so it's not a traditional sensitivity adjustement) this makes the modulation area (along the key) shorter so new gestures are possible in that you can almost 'flick' the sound on the Y axis.

[bg]

Thanks! And interesting about the SLIDE control.

[deastman]

I'll look into the Glide control tonight. Thanks heaps for the tip.

Another thing that occurred to me today, when thinking about Rise v Block, is that the Block is cheaper but I am not at all sure it is anything like better value. With FXpansion Strobe 2 and the full Equator synth, you get something like $300 worth of software included and, to get all the controls on the left side of the Rise, you'd need to buy at least one other Block device, probably two, at which point the Rise starts to look like the better buy.

Agreed. Roli's dirty little secret, if you can call it that, is that Equator and Strobe 2 are hands down the best poly synths to control with their devices. That puts you at a disadvantage if you choose to go with Linnstrument or one of the others.

And the truth is that Roli Blocks are a bit of a toy, really. Which is fine. They're aimed at the iOS crowd.

[zerocrossing]

I very quickly developed a new playing style, where my hands basically rest on the keys and I just press down to play, as opposed to the "death from above" method I've always used to play a normal keyboard. I've done this because I found hitting the keys in the right spot the way I normally play didn't work very well. This new playing style works much better and feels natural (a bit like touch typing).
.

Yes! That's exactly how to play the RISE. It really needs this more sensitive approach. This is so important, mostly because if people hit the RISE keys like they would a normal keyboard, they will reach the full range of pressure modulation and then won't be able to add any more. Pressure on the Seaboard is of the continuous* variety, so it really pays to press lightly, since then the sound will respond to pressure modulation in a natural and fluid manner.

It is also important becouse the sound can be transformed drastically with pressure, so if someone selects a patch with a description like 'dark pad' but whacks the keys hard, they will hear the filter open thus making the sound bright, and then a conclusion: but this sound is not 'dark'!

continuous* - there is a trick to make it respond like traditional aftertouch.

There's another trick I use. It's a M4L device that let's you either set a delay before aftertouch get's let though, or a threshold. I use the threshold set at about 100. It compresses the full range, but not that bad and I don't have to worry about hitting the Rise too hard and getting an undesireable result. I wish they'd build that into the control app.

[aMUSEd]

Another thing that occurred to me today, when thinking about Rise v Block, is that the Block is cheaper but I am not at all sure it is anything like better value. With FXpansion Strobe 2 and the full Equator synth, you get something like $300 worth of software included and, to get all the controls on the left side of the Rise, you'd need to buy at least one other Block device, probably two, at which point the Rise starts to look like the better buy.

I'm weighing this one up myself. On the one hand I do like the extensibility of the Block version, for example I like that I could take one out with me but at home join 2-3 mini keys to make a full range keyboard. But I do also think the XY and sliders on the full Rise look very useful. So one question for me is can I replicate those functions using a Lightpad block (at least the XY)?

[SteveElbows]

And the truth is that Roli Blocks are a bit of a toy, really. Which is fine. They're aimed at the iOS crowd.

True to an extent, but if they were only aiming them in that direction I dont think they'd have put as much functionality & developer stuff into the blocks dashboard desktop app as they have. Hardly anyone seems to have done much 3rd party dev for blocks yet but the facility is there and thats one of the things I am interested in trying once I get the seaboard block - the ability to hack around under the bonnet with its functionality is of great interest to me, and is something we dont get with the seaboard rise.