Roland Cloud

[Gamma-UT]

Actually you do not get to use the license as long as you please; rather, as long as the owner of the software pleases with a recent case in point being Camel Audio's actions.

Lolwut? If I run Alchemy I don't get a popup saying licence expired. Perpetual licence is perpetual. I don't have to pay again to use the version for which I've paid. All that's likely to happen at some stage is that it will be incompatible with a future OS. Which is why I have a spare machine that's dual-boot with two older OSs.

Roland Cloud is not operated by Roland - it's some other company that has a licensing deal. At some point, Roland being Roland is going to decide to terminate that agreement. What do you think is going to happen then? I can tell one thing that's very likely: the software anyone has tied to Roland Cloud will stop working (though at least they won't have to keep paying).

[JJ_Jettflow]

Actually you do not get to use the license as long as you please; rather, as long as the owner of the software pleases with a recent case in point being Camel Audio's actions.

Lolwut? If I run Alchemy I don't get a popup saying licence expired. Perpetual licence is perpetual. I don't have to pay again to use the version for which I've paid. All that's likely to happen at some stage is that it will be incompatible with a future OS. Which is why I have a spare machine that's dual-boot with two older OSs.

Roland Cloud is not operated by Roland - it's some other company that has a licensing deal. At some point, Roland being Roland is going to decide to terminate that agreement. What do you think is going to happen then? I can tell one thing that's very likely: the software anyone has tied to Roland Cloud will stop working (though at least they won't have to keep paying).

Sure if I wanted to run all my dead software I could use a couple of stone age computers as well but to what end?

Yes so you have a dead piece of software that has no support and that you have to keep a DOA OS to run it but a least you don't have to pay for it.

As far as Virtual Sonics, they have been partnered with Roland for a number of years already (VS preamps, drivers for UA55 by VS too) so I'm not sure where you are coming from thinking this is some delicate, frail new venture that is destined to fail before it gets out of the gate.

BTW, it's more like a partnership than an agreement seeing it's proper name is Roland Virtual Sonics.

[Gamma-UT]

Sure if I wanted to run all my dead software I could use a couple of stone age computers as well but to what end?

Yes so you have a dead piece of software that has no support and that you have to keep a DOA OS to run it but a least you don't have to pay for it.

I'm curious. Why do you buy music software? To collect it? To update it?

Personally, I quite like playing and using it. I don't, for example, bother running some of the old Audio Ease stuff I've got because the phaser and format plugs have largely been superseded by other things. Alchemy 1 does some things that I want to continue using. It still runs on my main machine. But in case I need to access it again for recall or simply because what will be some oldskool sample stretching is in order, I will be able to access it.

As far as Virtual Sonics, they have been partnered with Roland for a number of years already (VS preamps, drivers for UA55 by VS too) so I'm not sure where you are coming from thinking this is some delicate, frail new venture that is destined to fail before it gets out of the gate.

It's Roland not Virtual Sonics that is likely to be the issue. You can't look at Roland's history of abandonware and think any involvement in software is going to last long – not unless they've had some deep change of heart at the top.

I have looked at subscribing – I don't have some fundamental thing against using it. But, I'd be rendering and printing every stem made with it, partly because I don't want to keep paying on the off chance I might use the synths the next month and also because, unlike a perpetual licence, they reserve the right to change the terms as they please – which may include a total suspension of service.

I also find it strange you put such trust in a corporate entity when the first counterexample you mention is down to corporate entities doing their thing.

[JJ_Jettflow]

I'm curious. Why do you buy music software? To collect it? To update it?

Personally, I quite like playing and using it. I don't, for example, bother running some of the old Audio Ease stuff I've got because the phaser and format plugs have largely been superseded by other things. Alchemy 1 does some things that I want to continue using. It still runs on my main machine. But in case I need to access it again for recall or simply because what will be some oldskool sample stretching is in order, I will be able to access it.

To make music with it. Like I did when I bought hardware. .like I have for over 35 years.

.

I also find it strange you put such trust in a corporate entity when the first counterexample you mention is down to corporate entities doing their thing.

Big difference between Roland, a musical instrument company that has innovative products that are still be used today and the average fly by night software developer.

[JJ_Jettflow]

hange of heart at the top.

I have looked at subscribing – I don't have some fundamental thing against using it. But, I'd be rendering and printing every stem made with it, partly because I don't want to keep paying on the off chance I might use the synths the next month and also because, unlike a perpetual licence, they reserve the right to change the terms as they please – which may include a total suspension of service.
.

Odd that you are afraid of Roland doing the exact same thing that Camel Audio did; they changed the terms as they pleased didn't they?

[Gamma-UT]

Odd that you are afraid of Roland doing the exact same thing that Camel Audio did; they changed the terms as they pleased didn't they?

Where? What terms of the Alchemy 1 licence changed post the Apple acquisition?

From the Alchemy software licence:

"10.2
Modification. No variation of or amendment to this Agreement shall bind either Party unless made in writing and signed by both Parties."

For comparison, RVS:

"Roland VS reserves the right, at its sole and absolute discretion, to modify any of the terms and conditions of these Terms of Use. Roland VS will post any revised Terms of Use in this location, and may provide such other notice as Roland VS may elect. Your continued use of Roland VS Websites following notice of changes to these Terms of Use means you accept any and all such changes, effective as of the date of such acceptance. If any future changes to these Terms of Use are unacceptable to you or cause you to no longer be in compliance with these Terms of Use, you may cease use of the Roland VS Websites and terminate your Account (as defined below).

"All use of any Roland VS Website services, software and other applications, which link to these Terms of Use (the “Service”), whether accessed directly or through a third party website (e.g., a social network) (, and the relationship between Roland VS and you, with respect to your use of the Service, is governed by these Terms of Use."

[Gamma-UT]

To make music with it. Like I did when I bought hardware. .like I have for over 35 years.
...
Big difference between Roland, a musical instrument company that has innovative products that are still be used today and the average fly by night software developer.

I've got two Ensoniq synths that still run (well the ZR76 has always been a bit flakey, but that's Ensoniq for you). It was a company that was never destined to last. Yet, under supposedly stable Emu and then Creative Labs, the operation simply disappeared. You can just about get spares for some of the bigger sellers like the VFX and the ASR, but not a lot. Good old hardware.

And yet keeping a soft synth in a runnable state is an issue?

[JJ_Jettflow]

To make music with it. Like I did when I bought hardware. .like I have for over 35 years.
...
Big difference between Roland, a musical instrument company that has innovative products that are still be used today and the average fly by night software developer.

I've got two Ensoniq synths that still run (well the ZR76 has always been a bit flakey, but that's Ensoniq for you). It was a company that was never destined to last. Yet, under supposedly stable Emu and then Creative Labs, the operation simply disappeared. You can just about get spares for some of the bigger sellers like the VFX and the ASR, but not a lot. Good old hardware.

And yet keeping a soft synth in a runnable state is an issue?

Guess you should have bought a Roland then eh? They still support their old gear.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Odd that you are afraid of Roland doing the exact same thing that Camel Audio did; they changed the terms as they pleased didn't they?

Where? What terms of the Alchemy 1 licence changed post the Apple acquisition?

From the Alchemy software licence:

"10.2
Modification. No variation of or amendment to this Agreement shall bind either Party unless made in writing and signed by both Parties."

For comparison, RVS:

"Roland VS reserves the right, at its sole and absolute discretion, to modify any of the terms and conditions of these Terms of Use. Roland VS will post any revised Terms of Use in this location, and may provide such other notice as Roland VS may elect. Your continued use of Roland VS Websites following notice of changes to these Terms of Use means you accept any and all such changes, effective as of the date of such acceptance. If any future changes to these Terms of Use are unacceptable to you or cause you to no longer be in compliance with these Terms of Use, you may cease use of the Roland VS Websites and terminate your Account (as defined below).

"All use of any Roland VS Website services, software and other applications, which link to these Terms of Use (the “Service”), whether accessed directly or through a third party website (e.g., a social network) (, and the relationship between Roland VS and you, with respect to your use of the Service, is governed by these Terms of Use."

How about printing the whole EULA from both companies so we can make a fair comparison? This way, looks sort of like you are cherry picking a bit.

[Gamma-UT]

Guess you should have bought a Roland then eh? They still support their old gear.

Yes that's right.

V-Producer 3 Macintosh OS X (G4)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for G4 Macintosh computers running OS X

V-Producer 3 Windows (ME, XP)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for Windows computers running ME or XP.

[Gamma-UT]

How about printing the whole EULA from both companies so we can make a fair comparison? This way, looks sort of like you are cherry picking a bit.

Ok, but which part of "no variation of agreement without signature from both parties" don't you understand?

The point was about retrospective changes in a licence. I posted the relevant section. Are you expecting "10.3 Just kidding, had fingers crossed"?

[JJ_Jettflow]

Guess you should have bought a Roland then eh? They still support their old gear.

Yes that's right.

V-Producer 3 Macintosh OS X (G4)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for G4 Macintosh computers running OS X

V-Producer 3 Windows (ME, XP)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for Windows computers running ME or XP.

I thought we were talking hardware?

[JJ_Jettflow]

How about printing the whole EULA from both companies so we can make a fair comparison? This way, looks sort of like you are cherry picking a bit.

Ok, but which part of "no variation of agreement without signature from both parties" don't you understand?

The point was about retrospective changes in a licence. I posted the relevant section. Are you expecting "10.3 Just kidding, had fingers crossed"?

I understand the company no longer exists so you might have a problem getting CA's signature on that variation agreement!

[Gamma-UT]

Guess you should have bought a Roland then eh? They still support their old gear.

Yes that's right.

V-Producer 3 Macintosh OS X (G4)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for G4 Macintosh computers running OS X

V-Producer 3 Windows (ME, XP)
This is the latest version of the V-Producer Software for the VariOS. This version is for Windows computers running ME or XP.

I thought we were talking hardware?

Is this not hardware? Is that why people can't get screws for it for their 19in racks? https://www.roland.com/global/products/varios/features/

[Gamma-UT]

I understand the company no longer exists so you might have a problem getting CA's signature on that variation agreement!

And your point is...?