Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[msvs]

calculation the costs of the technical requirements for a subscription model, they are in no relation to the benefit at the moment for us.
But I always wonder, why not use the institution which is made for that: your bank? Borrow you money, so you can buy something you can't afford to buy at once is THE thing they do... Then you pay back the money in low rates. Its technically the same.
Only difference is the flexibility. Of course you should be sure you want to purchase the plugin. But If you are unsure, there is a demoversion...

[Jermusic]

@msvs

About the rent-to-own thing. Look at it this way, I personally decided to rent Xfer Serum at $10 a month for 2 non-consecutive months. In the end, since I had other plugins I also liked, I simply let go of Serum. I did like Serum very much but I decided that as a UVI Falcon owner, Serum was not worth it in the end. Xfer made $20 US with me that they would NEVER have made otherwise. I got to use the full version of Serum (no a limited demo) for 2 months and then I simply canceled. I would say in my case it was worth it, getting to use the full unrestricted version for 2 months and like I said, Xfer made some money with me that they would not have made otherwise. Pretty good deal I think. I do not believe in pirating software at all so a rent-to-own program is perfect, you use the full version and you stick with it as long as you want and the company gets paid while you're using the product.

In the case of VPS Avenger, I have the demo on my PC and like many people I feel this is a very special software synth, on par with UVI Falcon, Steinberg HALion 6 and Spectrasonics Omnisphere. I would stick with VPS Avenger since it is special (it does so much and does it very well) but even if I did not, in the end you guys don't get paid when I'm using the demo. You would get paid if I gave you a monthly payment and I would not hear the unpleasant hissing sound of the demo. Of course, I could wait to buy it but there is something about impulse buy, spending $10 or $15 a month for a rent-to-own is an impulse buy that many of us would make while spending $220 in one shot is a bigger deal. It has to be rent-to-own though and not just "rent" like Roland is doing with their plugins, rent alone is atrocious.

[Jermusic]

@msvs
"calculation the costs of the technical requirements for a subscription model, they are in no relation to the benefit at the moment for us."

You mention the costs of setting up a subscription program, I must admit that I don't know anything about what you guys would have to spend to set up a system like this so I am ignorant about that. Maybe I was a little (or very) naive in my posting above. But I was just sharing my personal experience as to why I like the rent-to-own model.

[Coockie1176ln]

calculation the costs of the technical requirements for a subscription model, they are in no relation to the benefit at the moment for us.

Its hard to calculate all new possible customers so im sure your calculation model is kinda wrong also look to collab with splice like xfer did to make cost more effective and they already have a working model. Calculate those who never afford to buy something straight off but maybe can just pay per month etc also its really good PR for VPS avenger. Serum really got acclaimed after that and so many celebrated their marketing strategy. Companies are neither good or bad but strategies like that makes a company look like they are on the good side. Words will spread. Even if you think its costsome imagine how expensive good PR can be and this is basically PR cause people will be like, omg they have subscription model maybe they arent that bad at all. Love it!

I am not wrong about it, just google and find out how people react to serums pay to rent basically free PR for company included which is priceless for you guys!

its shame not many heard or know about avenger, if you talk to people in varias forum everybody suggest serum sylenth1 etc. but very small userbase talk about avenger. its a shame because its a beast and i love it!

But I always wonder, why not use the institution which is made for that: your bank? Borrow you money, so you can buy something you can't afford to buy at once is THE thing they do... Then you pay back the money in low rates. Its technically the same.
Only difference is the flexibility.

Its not the same at all, for once you can abort after 4 months off use and then continou with pay plan 3 months later or never again. So you rent it until you own it and there is no tax. Try do that with borring money from a bank. you got that one wrong. Not equal same comparison.

[exmatproton]

But I always wonder, why not use the institution which is made for that: your bank? Borrow you money, so you can buy something you can't afford to buy at once is THE thing they do... Then you pay back the money in low rates. Its technically the same.
Only difference is the flexibility. Of course you should be sure you want to purchase the plugin. But If you are unsure, there is a demoversion...

Really? Show me a bank which is willing to 'borrow' me 200 euro's...without rent.
Rent-to-own is, imho, a great way to bring quality software to all people.

[msvs]

if you talk to people in varias forum everybody suggest serum sylenth1 etc

this also could have something to do with warez... just guessing

Really? Show me a bank which is willing to 'borrow' me 200 euro's...without rent.

In other coutries its maybe even less, but in Germany they charge interest of only 2-3% PER YEAR atm. Thats not even ~5€ per year. How many years does someone need to pay back 200€? Btw: If we would offer a renting system, we also would need to make the plugin some € more expansive in the end, than the regular buy-at-once price, to cover the costs of the whole system (you need someone who takes a look every month, if your payments are arriving. What if someone doesnt pay? You need lawyers, a tool to block the software when behind the payment plan. There are transaction fees from various countries, bigger than the actual payment etc... there is a lot going on to get such a system running).

To shortcut the discussion: will not come anytime soon, sorry guys . Not feasible for us. We want to put our time in new cool features and sounds, because we love doing that... I think most of you will agree to this

Back to cooler things: Rene is back from his holidays and we are working on the last changes for the new update which brings you Granular + a new OSC browser.

[kokotte]

Back to cooler things: Rene is back from his holidays and we are working on the last changes for the new update which brings you Granular + a new OSC browser.

!!!! good news !!!!

[Coockie1176ln]

if you talk to people in varias forum everybody suggest serum sylenth1 etc

this also could have something to do with warez... just guessing

To be honest dont blaim warez. If demand is big any software will in time be cracked. I have hard time believe that is the reason for everything.

But blaim yourself if you dont want good PR. Its your companies problem

Stop comparing banks not same thing and actually suggesting people to borrow from bank is shitty way of thinking. I can understand that you dont want to do rent to pay but suggesting borrow money from a bank is just really really shitty to suggest. Have some moral

[wagtunes]

if you talk to people in varias forum everybody suggest serum sylenth1 etc

this also could have something to do with warez... just guessing

To be honest dont blaim warez. If demand is big any software will in time be cracked. I have hard time believe that is the reason for everything.

But blaim yourself if you dont want good PR. Its your companies problem

Stop comparing banks not same thing and actually suggesting people to borrow from bank is shitty way of thinking. I can understand that you dont want to do rent to pay but suggesting borrow money from a bank is just really really shitty to suggest. Have some moral

Oh please. There is nothing immoral about suggesting to somebody that they might want to consider borrowing from a bank. I borrowed from banks to pay for my house, cars, aluminum siding and a number of other things.

Banks are not evil and suggesting somebody use one is not immoral.

I can completely understand why they don't want to do a rent to own program. There are extra costs involved. Costs that they would have to pass onto YOU.

[kevvvvv]

Interesting hearing enthusiasm for the saas - software as a service - rental model.

Noiz are battering me every day with emails to sign up, so I unsubscribed this morning.

Rental will increase support calls/emails which are expensive as they'll come from people who've taken a £10 risk on a single payment, then beat up the dev for 30 days for not supporting them properly, then trash them all over facebook when they quit renting.

I can see it all now

I'm not against the rental model. I rent loads of stuff.

But the trend for customers webwide is to encourage/nag vendors to give them more and more for free, or in cheaper ways, permanent deals, etc, until the software is virtually given away (ask Urs Heckman).

All software tends to zero price.

Look at Wusik as a worst case. The product has a poor image compared to Omnisphere or Kontakt, even though it has a fabulous spec and loads of patches/samples. And the dev struggles - always. And he's not the only one by a mile, if the truth was admitted.

Public expectation has somehow pushed the price into the ground.

I'm glad I paid for Avenger as it's forced me to commit 100%, which is essential to onboard any complex product.

It's made me a better synthesist - as apart from a monthly-preset-rental user

But I'd still be happy to rent a £55 expansion pack for a tenner, and copy them all

[Lets dance]

You can pay one payment than call your credit card company to make this payment for how many payment they can give u.
Here i can make up to 18 payments with credit from the credit card company.

So grab your self Avenger and call your credit card company to split the payment to 4 payments . 50 euro each month its not much.

[starflakeprj]

To be honest dont blaim warez. If demand is big any software will in time be cracked. I have hard time believe that is the reason for everything.

Mostly true, but there are lots of popular software out there that are not cracked. Cubase Pro for instance. Hasn't been cracked for generations.

[msvs]

You can pay one payment than call your credit card company to make this payment for how many payment they can give u.
Here i can make up to 18 payments with credit from the credit card company.

So grab your self Avenger and call your credit card company to split the payment to 4 payments . 50 euro each month its not much.

you are right! There is also the credit card option, not thought about this at all

[systmu]

Rent to own is working great and more developers are adopting it. Any qualms are not based in reality. Either you want to make money or you don't. It's that simple. And the bank suggestion is funny lol talk about cultural naivety. Wow

[exmatproton]

Rent to own is working great and more developers are adopting it. Any qualms are not based in reality. Either you want to make money or you don't. It's that simple. And the bank suggestion is funny lol talk about cultural naivety. Wow

I agree. Sure, there are some 'alternatives'. However, the way Splice has set it up, is working quite nicely.
So, Vengeance would be able to provide an alternative way of selling without much hassle.

But, whatever suits them. It is their company.

I bought Avenger 'the normal way' anyway

Great synth and indeed, good news that progress is being made for a new update.