I guess you can print a toy car made of plastic using a 3d printer, and perhaps if we are optimistic you can also print the bodywork of a normal sized car, but the printer that would print the hardened steel parts of an actually functioning car would probably need to be made of artificial diamond and cost as much as the same factory that builds such parts today, because you have to keep rebuilding that printer to be able to restore its aging parts. So in the end it does not make sense to compare these things to software and say they are the same, there is a huge cost difference. This approach makes your argument sound bad in spite of the fact that it's obviously correct and could be defended easily in more down to earth terms. You could just say it's illegal and immoral, end of the story, these two are adequate. A state has running costs and its citizens have to pay tax, regardless of how small or large it may be, it's the same thing. A pirate is an illegal immigrant that wasn't invited, and doesn't pay tax, and unlike those coming from the war-torn countries, a software pirate's life is not in danger and the software he uses illegally is not serving an humanitarian need.Today, in a perfect moment where 3d printers are affordable and you can use 3d printers for printing other 3d printers, and you can use them for printing a car, the distinction between hardware and software doesn't make a sense any more. Your car in the immediate future will be "software".
They are printing "buildings", "boats", go figure smaller hardware objects.
Your car manufacturer is just a giant 3d printer.
More copy protection...
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
~stratum~
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 13 Mar, 2012
This examples are just so bad -.-
The most expensive part on a tesla is the battery.. not the autopilot .. lol xD
You won't be able to print batteries with your 3D printer.
"Everything will be software in the future" sounds like a wet dream of a software dev that has lost connection to reality.
The most expensive part on a tesla is the battery.. not the autopilot .. lol xD
You won't be able to print batteries with your 3D printer.
"Everything will be software in the future" sounds like a wet dream of a software dev that has lost connection to reality.
~~ ॐ http://soundcloud.com/mfr ॐ ~~
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- KVRAF
- 2554 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1
yes, everything will be software
it will run in emulators (software again)
those emulators will run in virtual machines (software)
and the virtual machines will be emulated with even more software
hm.. did i miss something?
if that's the future i think i wanna stay in the past
it will run in emulators (software again)
those emulators will run in virtual machines (software)
and the virtual machines will be emulated with even more software
hm.. did i miss something?
if that's the future i think i wanna stay in the past
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
Yes, the claim that this is already the case. http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160901 ... not-matter (don't take too seriously)hm.. did i miss something?
~stratum~
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- Banned
- 697 posts since 29 Oct, 2016
The future looks good. To who needs to see this paragraph: Life is not the end of existence. Even for those who live in the dry world only (who only believe the dust around them is all there is) and ignore the constant motion of higher order and see only disorder and loss, there is hope. From your perspective of time, as we continue to develop technology, we will span the stars together, continually grow upwards through scale and become a larger life force and a higher order. Virtualization of the dust, of mankind, and increasing us in order ever more so. The universe is far more infinite than what you see.antto wrote:yes, everything will be software
it will run in emulators (software again)
those emulators will run in virtual machines (software)
and the virtual machines will be emulated with even more software
hm.. did i miss something?
if that's the future i think i wanna stay in the past
Order increases with time across all scales before repetition, the interplay of order and disorder over the balance of man. 12, 7, 5, 6
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.
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- KVRist
- 132 posts since 15 Jan, 2017
That new (as featured @ KvR frontpage) Backmask plugin's "steal" option is so far the best way of fighting piracy that I have seen.
While you guys discuss bus tickets here, that guy, IMO, lives in 3017.
While you guys discuss bus tickets here, that guy, IMO, lives in 3017.
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- KVRist
- 97 posts since 17 Jan, 2017
I think that Developers show presence in places like here is a good way to let people thinking about the legal way.
It´s absolutly not okay that everyone is under general suspicon with that serial shit like Dongle here and Ilok there and service center there.
There are no statistics about Warezthings and similar ways to get the stuff illegal and reason why people do that. For my case, i meet a guy at the beginn of 2000. I saw all this plugins , i don´t know anything about that was that cost and there it come from. (and have no idea for what different plugins used too. ) In 2007 i bought Hardwaresynths and Sequencer and the illegal stuff went away. Live Standard comes in 2008 or 2009 and from year to year i bought more and more stuff from Software Developers. I like Synthesizer and the technical progress in Software is more advanced like in the Hardwaresector(If you take economy reason with in my minds)
How old are the Warez´s? What business are they doing? why are they doing this?
There are also mistakes from the developer. Some special offers are so stupid. 7 expansions for free. Some people spend the 350,- and feel more than angry. This High low price politic is not good.
What will NI and Co. tell us? It´s worthless but we are corrupt enough to put the price to the cloud? So people will wait for the black fridays? And the other ones? We tell them don´t get our stuff illegal?
It´s absolutly not okay that everyone is under general suspicon with that serial shit like Dongle here and Ilok there and service center there.
There are no statistics about Warezthings and similar ways to get the stuff illegal and reason why people do that. For my case, i meet a guy at the beginn of 2000. I saw all this plugins , i don´t know anything about that was that cost and there it come from. (and have no idea for what different plugins used too. ) In 2007 i bought Hardwaresynths and Sequencer and the illegal stuff went away. Live Standard comes in 2008 or 2009 and from year to year i bought more and more stuff from Software Developers. I like Synthesizer and the technical progress in Software is more advanced like in the Hardwaresector(If you take economy reason with in my minds)
How old are the Warez´s? What business are they doing? why are they doing this?
There are also mistakes from the developer. Some special offers are so stupid. 7 expansions for free. Some people spend the 350,- and feel more than angry. This High low price politic is not good.
What will NI and Co. tell us? It´s worthless but we are corrupt enough to put the price to the cloud? So people will wait for the black fridays? And the other ones? We tell them don´t get our stuff illegal?
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- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
I'm surprised/disappointed that CAM and 3D printing has advanced so slowly. Was expecting it to become consumer-cheap much sooner.
Decades ago science fiction stories examined the copyright/patent implications when material objects can be duplicated similar to software. If you can print a pirate CAM file of that mercedes you wanted, then the mercedes is basically just IP in a computer file.
Tis difficult to estimate how soon it becomes feasible, if ever. Maybe humanity reverts to barbarism or worse before such dreams become common and affordable. Or maybe "just a decade in the future". Practical fusion power had been "only a decade in the future" since the 1950's.
Nowadays we can use 3D printing as "additive synthesis" though such materials are typically not very strong. Some 3D printers make fairly strong parts by sintering metal powder, but maybe that will always be expensive and hazardous enough to idiots as to remain "don't try this at home kids".
We can also use "subtractive synthesis" CAM lathes and mills to carve relatively durable parts out of blocks of material. Hobbyists with a few thou of gear can handle moderate-sized parts carved out of plastic, wood, aluminum, bronze, brass and steels. The current state remains a bit expensive and perhaps will always remain dangerous to idiots, "don't try this at home kids". Risk of personal injury and also the risk of the careless home operator ruining his $5000 milling machine with one bad line of machine control code.
Were I younger perhaps would study such fields rather than music programming. It remains a bit too expensive as a hobby. I think it was still in the 1980's visited a local tin bender who had bought a few CAM machines controlled by first-gen floppy drive IBM PC's executing autocad files. One machine was a giant router filling a big steel shed, capable of cutting flat parts out of steel several meters in size and up to several inches thick. Another machine was a programmable aluminum/steel chassis machine about 20 feet long and waist high. Program the box dimensions and cutouts. Put a stack of sheet metal on one end of the machine, like loading a printer with paper. Finished boxes drop into a bin on the other end of the machine.
Decades later, dunno how fancy industrial CAM has become.
Programmable nanotech is maybe the ultimate wet dream along those lines-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation
Then there is also programmable matter-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter
Decades ago science fiction stories examined the copyright/patent implications when material objects can be duplicated similar to software. If you can print a pirate CAM file of that mercedes you wanted, then the mercedes is basically just IP in a computer file.
Tis difficult to estimate how soon it becomes feasible, if ever. Maybe humanity reverts to barbarism or worse before such dreams become common and affordable. Or maybe "just a decade in the future". Practical fusion power had been "only a decade in the future" since the 1950's.
Nowadays we can use 3D printing as "additive synthesis" though such materials are typically not very strong. Some 3D printers make fairly strong parts by sintering metal powder, but maybe that will always be expensive and hazardous enough to idiots as to remain "don't try this at home kids".
We can also use "subtractive synthesis" CAM lathes and mills to carve relatively durable parts out of blocks of material. Hobbyists with a few thou of gear can handle moderate-sized parts carved out of plastic, wood, aluminum, bronze, brass and steels. The current state remains a bit expensive and perhaps will always remain dangerous to idiots, "don't try this at home kids". Risk of personal injury and also the risk of the careless home operator ruining his $5000 milling machine with one bad line of machine control code.
Were I younger perhaps would study such fields rather than music programming. It remains a bit too expensive as a hobby. I think it was still in the 1980's visited a local tin bender who had bought a few CAM machines controlled by first-gen floppy drive IBM PC's executing autocad files. One machine was a giant router filling a big steel shed, capable of cutting flat parts out of steel several meters in size and up to several inches thick. Another machine was a programmable aluminum/steel chassis machine about 20 feet long and waist high. Program the box dimensions and cutouts. Put a stack of sheet metal on one end of the machine, like loading a printer with paper. Finished boxes drop into a bin on the other end of the machine.
Decades later, dunno how fancy industrial CAM has become.
Programmable nanotech is maybe the ultimate wet dream along those lines-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation
Then there is also programmable matter-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
Somebody has written a paper about the subject matter https://chipflip.wordpress.com/2014/10/ ... eneration/ (linked from the end of the blog)How old are the Warez´s? What business are they doing? why are they doing this?
edit: it's here https://www.mat.ucsb.edu/Publications/b ... AH2009.pdf page 16. 'The Forgotten Pioneers of Creative Hacking and Social Networking'
~stratum~
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- Banned
- 697 posts since 29 Oct, 2016
An idea came to me:
I made myself a set of note generators and lfo generator in FL Studio Patcher with it's built-in midi effects (VFX) and a few Formula Controllers along with a couple undocumented keywords:
A Polyrhythmic Drum Generator (8 voices per instance),
A Polyrhythmic Spectral Chord Progression Generator (concatenated progressions),
A Polyrhythmic Melody Maker (single note restricted output of the chord progression generator)
A Superpositional LFO Generator (many enfolding lfos in a crossfader network)
Each with about 2 to the 32nd presets to choose between, with the possiblity to update to 2 to the 32nd to the 8th presets in a future version. Pretty cool, and only took me an hour to make. Can I sell this as a software plugin (in the style of the output of Flowstone as vst32win) or a preset pack (in the style of Aiyn Zahev Soundsets)? Obviously I can't hide the internal design, an obfuscation would only slow things down, and it is infinitely copy-able. Is it worth even selling? An interesting experiment when it comes to the world of copy protection.. can sales still be made with such trust given so freely? Does more trust mean more profit in the long run, despite tolerating the crackers? I was thinking of charging 5 bucks on gumroad or such places to drop and go with a file, or someone can sell it. An interesting experiment, I will post with examples for people to listen to the output and see the demo in a video.. if they like it they can just buy it outright.. I would seek to report my results. Still considering. I would need to polish the 'GUI' for a more plastic look for the 'feel', that is about another hour. Then I have to make the videos and churn out the stoned british guy voice to a slow groove, and show off a few presets with way too much compression. Any thoughts?
I made myself a set of note generators and lfo generator in FL Studio Patcher with it's built-in midi effects (VFX) and a few Formula Controllers along with a couple undocumented keywords:
A Polyrhythmic Drum Generator (8 voices per instance),
A Polyrhythmic Spectral Chord Progression Generator (concatenated progressions),
A Polyrhythmic Melody Maker (single note restricted output of the chord progression generator)
A Superpositional LFO Generator (many enfolding lfos in a crossfader network)
Each with about 2 to the 32nd presets to choose between, with the possiblity to update to 2 to the 32nd to the 8th presets in a future version. Pretty cool, and only took me an hour to make. Can I sell this as a software plugin (in the style of the output of Flowstone as vst32win) or a preset pack (in the style of Aiyn Zahev Soundsets)? Obviously I can't hide the internal design, an obfuscation would only slow things down, and it is infinitely copy-able. Is it worth even selling? An interesting experiment when it comes to the world of copy protection.. can sales still be made with such trust given so freely? Does more trust mean more profit in the long run, despite tolerating the crackers? I was thinking of charging 5 bucks on gumroad or such places to drop and go with a file, or someone can sell it. An interesting experiment, I will post with examples for people to listen to the output and see the demo in a video.. if they like it they can just buy it outright.. I would seek to report my results. Still considering. I would need to polish the 'GUI' for a more plastic look for the 'feel', that is about another hour. Then I have to make the videos and churn out the stoned british guy voice to a slow groove, and show off a few presets with way too much compression. Any thoughts?
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
PurpleSunray wrote:This examples are just so bad -.-
The most expensive part on a tesla is the battery.. not the autopilot .. lol xD
You won't be able to print batteries with your 3D printer.
"Everything will be software in the future" sounds like a wet dream of a software dev that has lost connection to reality.
It seems YOU have lost connection with the reality. I suggest to Google a bit more what's happening NOW
Man, I cannot help people living in the past, seriously
Last edited by Zaphod (giancarlo) on Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
This is already happeningantto wrote:yes, everything will be software
it will run in emulators (software again)
those emulators will run in virtual machines (software)
and the virtual machines will be emulated with even more software
hm.. did i miss something?
if that's the future i think i wanna stay in the past
For testing purposes I'm running vm inside vm. Even antivirus applications are running sandboxes and temporary vm.
Several customers are running software in vm so they can use it in many instances even if they couldn't. That's happening now. Basically for many ones this is the reason they hate hardware dongles.
One of our servers is a vm inside a vm inside a virtualized server.
Btw I'm running a vm with all audio software and performances are very good compared with a native bootcamp. The only difference, it can be copied and things don't expire any more (and when it happens you can fix things quickly reverting to a snapshot)
A crack basically fixes the "hardware dongle" thingy, and it is devasting. If you find a full working vm with all working production software... Why you should buy things any more?
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- KVRist
- 160 posts since 26 Sep, 2001 from Paris, France
Guess I'd better get myself into customizing DeLorean's real soon and get there asap, so I can get those robots busy building me a house and growing those groceries, then I can start writing those plug-in's again without worrying about this whole pesky obsolete paying the bills businessraysaul wrote:That new (as featured @ KvR frontpage) Backmask plugin's "steal" option is so far the best way of fighting piracy that I have seen.
While you guys discuss bus tickets here, that guy, IMO, lives in 3017.
.Lorcan | lmdsp audio plug-ins
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- KVRist
- 132 posts since 15 Jan, 2017
You do whatever you feel is right, but while you're being a funny guy here, that guy's both selling his plugins and approaching the piracy problem in a (IMO) cool, innovative way.lorcan wrote:Guess I'd better get myself into customizing DeLorean's real soon and get there asap, so I can get those robots busy building me a house and growing those groceries, then I can start writing those plug-in's again without worrying about this whole pesky obsolete paying the bills businessraysaul wrote:That new (as featured @ KvR frontpage) Backmask plugin's "steal" option is so far the best way of fighting piracy that I have seen.
While you guys discuss bus tickets here, that guy, IMO, lives in 3017.
I see it as a win win.
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Zaphod (giancarlo) Zaphod (giancarlo) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111268
- KVRAF
- 2596 posts since 23 Jun, 2006
it's a "variation" of donationware. But let me tell you ppl sometimes prefer the "d*ck option".raysaul wrote:That new (as featured @ KvR frontpage) Backmask plugin's "steal" option is so far the best way of fighting piracy that I have seen.
While you guys discuss bus tickets here, that guy, IMO, lives in 3017.
In italy there was a restaurant where you could pay with an "offer", and guess what? the model is not working any more. Don't get me wrong, donationware is a good thing (and it could be extended to crowdfunding models) but it is not exactly what an established company with several emplyees can do in a niche market.
I guess it fits perfectly in the single-employ case.
