DUNE 2 is out now!!
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- KVRAF
- 6392 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
So, there's a synth that offers impressive control over unison and oscillator spreading and has very good support for audio-rate modulation but it can't do psytrance sounds? Er, OK. Whatever.
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- KVRAF
- 9146 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
Only Spire canGamma-UT wrote:So, there's a synth that offers impressive control over unison and oscillator spreading and has very good support for audio-rate modulation but it can't do psytrance sounds? Er, OK. Whatever.
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
The Dune fanboyism has almost reached the Zebra's level. 
I think Dune is great concept and there is a lot of potential for future development here. Richard said it himself that some of the things I don't like about its sound may be improved in v. 3.
But is it the one and only synth which makes all other synths redundant, can shine at every task in every genre, and also makes excellent coffee and cures AIDS? No, I think not yet, at least not before v.3.
I think Dune is great concept and there is a lot of potential for future development here. Richard said it himself that some of the things I don't like about its sound may be improved in v. 3.
But is it the one and only synth which makes all other synths redundant, can shine at every task in every genre, and also makes excellent coffee and cures AIDS? No, I think not yet, at least not before v.3.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 22992 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
This is so classic of this place.
Joe: What? You can't make good psytrance with Dune 2? Don't blame the synth. It's all on you.
John: Okay, so where's YOUR great psytrance track made with Dune 2?
(Crickets)
Everybody criticizes but nobody ever posts any music showing just how great they are with this synth that they criticize others for not being able to get the sounds they want out of it.
At least I post my music. Tons of it in fact. Not that I have a horse in this particular race because I don't do Psytrance. Not my thing. I tried one track and Recursive told me it was okay but not quite. Of course he's the expert too. But as I'm not really into Psytrance that much, I didn't care enough to make an issue out of it. Like I said, no horse in this race.
But you guys are rich. You can all criticize but nobody puts their money where their mouth is. And of course we all know you're all making millions of dollars with your Psytrance music. Or any music for that matter.
Yeah, this place really cracks me up.
Having said all that, here's what I do know from my 40 years of programming synths. Any synth can be used to produce sounds for a particular genre. Yeah, it may take more work with some than with others, and sometimes even a lot of external processing, but it can be done. Dune 2 can do Pystrance sounds. How easy? Not a clue. But I know enough about the architecture to know that it's capable, even if I have to pile on a ton of FX.
And before anybody says it, yeah, I'll put my money where my mouth is and do a Psytrance track using only Dune 2 for all synth sounds. Drums I'll use a dedicated drum machine. Could I have maybe done the track easier with something else? Possibly. Don't know. Don't care. But to categorically state that Dune 2 can't do Psytrance is wrong. Preferring not to do Psytrance with Dune 2 is your right. Nobody is going to argue that. I don't like using Serum to do mellow pads, even though it's capable. I prefer to use other synths because they're easier. But Serum can do mellow pads.
But all you guys piling up on Recursive, how about showing us your great Psytrance tracks made only with Dune 2 and a drum machine?
We all want to hear your greatness.
Yeah, this place is rich.
Joe: What? You can't make good psytrance with Dune 2? Don't blame the synth. It's all on you.
John: Okay, so where's YOUR great psytrance track made with Dune 2?
(Crickets)
Everybody criticizes but nobody ever posts any music showing just how great they are with this synth that they criticize others for not being able to get the sounds they want out of it.
At least I post my music. Tons of it in fact. Not that I have a horse in this particular race because I don't do Psytrance. Not my thing. I tried one track and Recursive told me it was okay but not quite. Of course he's the expert too. But as I'm not really into Psytrance that much, I didn't care enough to make an issue out of it. Like I said, no horse in this race.
But you guys are rich. You can all criticize but nobody puts their money where their mouth is. And of course we all know you're all making millions of dollars with your Psytrance music. Or any music for that matter.
Yeah, this place really cracks me up.
Having said all that, here's what I do know from my 40 years of programming synths. Any synth can be used to produce sounds for a particular genre. Yeah, it may take more work with some than with others, and sometimes even a lot of external processing, but it can be done. Dune 2 can do Pystrance sounds. How easy? Not a clue. But I know enough about the architecture to know that it's capable, even if I have to pile on a ton of FX.
And before anybody says it, yeah, I'll put my money where my mouth is and do a Psytrance track using only Dune 2 for all synth sounds. Drums I'll use a dedicated drum machine. Could I have maybe done the track easier with something else? Possibly. Don't know. Don't care. But to categorically state that Dune 2 can't do Psytrance is wrong. Preferring not to do Psytrance with Dune 2 is your right. Nobody is going to argue that. I don't like using Serum to do mellow pads, even though it's capable. I prefer to use other synths because they're easier. But Serum can do mellow pads.
But all you guys piling up on Recursive, how about showing us your great Psytrance tracks made only with Dune 2 and a drum machine?
We all want to hear your greatness.
Yeah, this place is rich.
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- KVRAF
- 22992 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Yep, cause I poked at the hornet's nest and we all know how the hornets hate that.chk071 wrote:Popcorn time.
I really sometimes ask myself why I keep coming back to this place.
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- KVRAF
- 22992 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
I'm waiting for the pro Psytrance track you made with Dune 2.AnX wrote:My hammer wont bang these nails in.
Hit them harder
No, i need a diff hammer.
Im still waiting for all those pro psytrance tracks he made with all the other synths...
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
If anything, i never said that Dune2 can't make psytrance. Judging from my own experience one can get there but it often requires more tweaking and more external processing compared to some other synths, to get the desired sound character (I mean it is of course possible to make, e.g., that typical psytrance-ish pitched/bandpassed squelchy sound with any synth which has necessary parameters and assigments, but will it sound good or will it sound poor highly depends on the sound engine of the given synth). If others have different experience, that's good and I'd love to learn some specific tricks from these people.
Also judging from various production forums and blogs dedicated to psytrance, Dune2 never get than much attention in this specific genre as Sylenth, Spire, Massive, Serum let alone Virus TI which seems to be still unbeatable. I saw Dune CM being used for bass in an old psy tutorial, but it was heavily processed, resampled and the resulting sound was nothing alike the original patch.
Some people look only at feature lists (ARM? check! Unison? check! FM? check! - the synth must be good then) but disregrad the sound character of the synth.
Also judging from various production forums and blogs dedicated to psytrance, Dune2 never get than much attention in this specific genre as Sylenth, Spire, Massive, Serum let alone Virus TI which seems to be still unbeatable. I saw Dune CM being used for bass in an old psy tutorial, but it was heavily processed, resampled and the resulting sound was nothing alike the original patch.
Some people look only at feature lists (ARM? check! Unison? check! FM? check! - the synth must be good then) but disregrad the sound character of the synth.
Last edited by recursive one on Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 35676 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
In the end, it will all sort itself out, and people will use, what they feel like is suited the best. Spire, Sylenth1, or Massive have gazillions of EDM soundsets. I don't see that for Dune 2. There are some, yes, but, gazillions? No sir. Fair enough. I don't think the people arguing even are into, or have an idea of those genres. Why would you even argue, or want to do something you're not even into. I don't care either, if Spire makes good Polka sounds, or not.
With Dune 2, i feel it is like this: The architecture is kind of predestined to make big unison sounds. But, the oscillator sound itself is kind of thin, and i don't like the character of the filters, and envelopes very much. It's sort of clean, sterile, clinical, and dry. And soft. When i read elsewhere that someone claimed that Dune 1 is so aggressive, and rich sounding, i almost lost my non-existant chewing gum. Strange that impressions can be that vastly different. There are synths which can get extremely aggressive, and punchy. And then, there's... Dune.
I feel like it was exactly the intention of Richard though, what he was going for. And it surely sounds unique. It's just that not everyone is into that kind of sound.
With Dune 2, i feel it is like this: The architecture is kind of predestined to make big unison sounds. But, the oscillator sound itself is kind of thin, and i don't like the character of the filters, and envelopes very much. It's sort of clean, sterile, clinical, and dry. And soft. When i read elsewhere that someone claimed that Dune 1 is so aggressive, and rich sounding, i almost lost my non-existant chewing gum. Strange that impressions can be that vastly different. There are synths which can get extremely aggressive, and punchy. And then, there's... Dune.
I feel like it was exactly the intention of Richard though, what he was going for. And it surely sounds unique. It's just that not everyone is into that kind of sound.-
- KVRAF
- 6392 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
How Dune implements these things are very much a part of its character - but it's a toolkit for multiple sounds. You get much more control over the way the unison is implemented than with anything I've used. Sylenth, OTOH, has a particular implementation that I've no doubt was hand-tuned to sound right for cliché trance. If that's what you want, then use that or Spire. But, there are plenty of cases where people don't want to relive the sounds from a decade or more ago.recursive one wrote:Some people look only at feature lists (ARM? check! Unison? check! FM? check! - the synth must be good then) but disregrad the sound character of the synth.
For hard-edged sounds, I believe Cinebient posted a bunch of demoes in this thread that outlined what the audio-rate modulation can achieve. They weren't psytrance sounds per se but I don't think it takes much imagination to see how you can use those techniques well in that genre. Your original point was that Dune can't do harder sounds for things like DnB as well as psytrance. That seems unlikely given that it can get pretty nasty long before you turn on the effects.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
I agree, this pretty much may be that I just didn't explore Dune's potential in full. I've spent a lot of time with it but may be still not enough. Sometimes Dune does surprize me and I actually use it here and there (actually, mostly for teh soudns based on its native FM and ARM made via the matrix) but never as my main synth. For more or less "typical" stuff I prefer the other synths I've mentioned here which get me there faster.Gamma-UT wrote:How Dune implements these things are very much a part of its character - but it's a toolkit for multiple sounds. You get much more control over the way the unison is implemented than with anything I've used. Sylenth, OTOH, has a particular implementation that I've no doubt was hand-tuned to sound right for cliché trance. If that's what you want, then use that or Spire. But, there are plenty of cases where people don't want to relive the sounds from a decade or more ago.recursive one wrote:Some people look only at feature lists (ARM? check! Unison? check! FM? check! - the synth must be good then) but disregrad the sound character of the synth.
For hard-edged sounds, I believe Cinebient posted a bunch of demoes in this thread that outlined what the audio-rate modulation can achieve. They weren't psytrance sounds per se but I don't think it takes much imagination to see how you can use those techniques well in that genre. Your original point was that Dune can't do harder sounds for things like DnB as well as psytrance. That seems unlikely given that it can get pretty nasty long before you turn on the effects.
Could you link me to these Cinebient's demos?
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 6392 posts since 8 Jun, 2009