Fathom Synth Development Thread

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Fathom Synth

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Will test this eve.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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FathomSynth wrote:RPH, OK, I will look into the note missing problem.
I tested it a lot and never saw it miss any, so could you save the preset and send me the xml file,
and also export the midi sequence and send it to me, also which host?
The note message is automatically disabled if CPU goes over a high threshold
so it could happen if you are on the edge with CPU usage.
I will also check Renoise and Reaper, not sure what happens there btw.

Update: Reaper does the same, some notes were not shown in a midi item with random melody. Renoise showed all notes correctly. Will test further.

Update 2: Added video, so you can see what happens in e.g. Reaper ( right-click and save as to see it ): http://rhmodules.nl/temp/Fathom-notedisplay.mp4

Here are the files you requested.
CPU usage on my Core i5 6600k was 30% max at some point in the pattern, average about 20% maybe.
Buffersize: 256samples ( 6ms )

Preset:
PulseFM2(new).zip
Flstudio file and mid file:
130-Fathom-chill.zip
Some new presets I made:
Somepresets.zip
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by RPH on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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FathomSynth wrote:Also, friends, I need your help with something.

One of my user's reported a really bad audio clicking problem with the mono version,
and I will include the audio file here.

Sales dropped to almost zero after release 109 even though it had some really cool features,
and I'm strongly suspicious that I broke something really bad and did not find it in testing,
possibly with the mono version.
- Did he provide some info on his computer specs and soundcard settings ( driver / buffersize )?
- Which preset did he use?
- Host?
- Both versions ( 32 / 64bit )?

I installed the Mono version and tried all Oscillator components, not one click to be heard.


My 2 cents:

- When adding your VST have a nice basic preset loaded, one you know can't have clicks or be too heavy on CPU. So when someone tries your plugin it gives a good first impression.

Sales:
- Maybe ask some music mags / sites to review your plugin? More exposure is always good. :)
- The beta status could also be putting off?
- Are the look and feel of the plugin attractive enough, market research?

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FathomSynth wrote:Koalaboy, Yes, in the near future the UI will be resizable since I built that into the interface,
I just had not turned it on yet since it will require a lot of testing to make sure nothing is missed.
But could you send me or post a screen shot of the display with the GUI showing small, please.
Here's a screenshot - I run 4K @ 200% - You should be able to notice how tiny the Fathom text and selection elements are in relation to everthing else.
Image

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Koalaboy, what kind of monitor is that, its amazing (I’m jealous). Yes you are right, the UI is way too small on such a high resolution monitor. Like I said, resizing is already built in to all the control graphics. So I will try to move that way up the priority list. I will need to add a resizing grabber and also handle resizing for all the graph types. So it won’t be the next release but I think the one after.

RPH, Thanks for the notes video, that helps a lot.

I will debug that for the next release. Also, great job on the new presets. I will include them in the preset collection for the next release. I especially like LushDetunedPad(new) and SEQ-Bubbly(new), great use of the wave table oscillator. Filterbank(new) is a great stress test for the filters.

Also, thanks for the extra testing. And I’m glad to hear that there is no clicking on your system. But I design Fathom to be click free, so I will need to get to the bottom of Diego’s bug and fix it for this release.

Good question, I forgot to ask him if he’s running 32 or 64 bit. But I remember he said 4 Gigs of RAM. This can be a problem for Fathom since each GUI takes 225 MB. And fully loaded with 4 oscillators, 4 filters, 4 effects and 4 envelopes takes about 750 MB per instance. With multiple tracks you can easily run out of memory.

110 Will include the following new features:
Ability to modulate envelope and LFO Period.
Ability to copy any audio object.
Note velocity and after touch as modulators.
New Bezier Curve Oscillator.

Also fixes to the following bugs:
Diego: Audio File Clicking Problem.
Overhishead: Analog saw note D3 resonant spike at 2K.
RPH: Resonant bump in state variable filter at 10K.
RPH: FL Studio and Reaper notes overlay missing notes.

Also, So far on the web site “Artists” page RPH and Scrubbing Monkeys are getting all the “fame”. So I need a couple more of you to send in your Fathom produced songs, I know some of you are probably sitting on some masterpieces.

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FathomSynth wrote:Koalaboy, what kind of monitor is that, its amazing (I’m jealous). Yes you are right, the UI is way too small on such a high resolution monitor. Like I said, resizing is already built in to all the control graphics. So I will try to move that way up the priority list. I will need to add a resizing grabber and also handle resizing for all the graph types. So it won’t be the next release but I think the one after.
It's a philips bdm4065uc - It has a few quirks, but overall it's really nice.

If it's simpler, you could add a 'scale' option in the settings, with a dropdown that has options of 100%,125%,150%,175% and 200%
Quite a few VSTs do it this way (some with more options than others) and it works very well, without having to support dynamic rescaling.

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I loaded up a fresh instance of mono Fathom, added a basic waveform osc and a filter. Played around on some keys. There were clicks related to key press and release. on nearly every one.

This is due to instant attack and no release......Because, I havent set up a volume envelope yet.

The default ADSR addresses this with a delayed attack and soft release. Once I apply the envelope to the OSC volume by setting up the modulation the clicks go away.

As RPH stated above. It maybe useful to have it open up with a preset with the basics in place.

Going through this process I realized that Fathom could use an amplifier as an audio object. Although I can assign all audio objects to the same (envelope ) modulator to simulate a VCA envelope or assign the master volume (i dont like this idea) to an envelope, its really not the same as having everything run in series to the Amp. For example ...I like to have my filter envelope "choke out" the volume of my Osc by falling out of the audible range at a certain decay. In Fathom, this doesnt happen. I hear the filter go out but the Osc is still present. Again, I could set both volumes to the same modulator but its not the same.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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SM, Thanks so much. That is really helpful.

Fathom has code which times the start and stop of notes to the exact start and stop of the waveform cycle even if voices are detuned and even if there is no ADSR. So it should not click even without a volume ADSR to soften the edges, no matter how fast you play the notes. This means that I must have broken something. So I will get to the bottom of this, and get it fixed for this release.

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It seems to be more related to the release than attack. This is common with alot of VST synths, probably some hardware too.

As far as the VCA......having the componets out in series would solve that any way. For example, If there were...
one osc connected to one filter.
a 2 second envelope modulating the osc ( constant volume for 2 eeconds)
an ADSR envelope modulating the filter such that the filter was dropped to 10 hz after 1 second.

If the two were in series the volume at the master would not be heard after one second. Because we cant hear 10 hz and its the shortest envelope in the chain.

However it seems as if the componets are in parallel to some degree, because using the above example. I hear the filter die out but continue to hear the osc untill its envelope has fished or worse ( if it doesnt have one) until I release the key.

I also noticed the audio drop out again. I was able to get it to do it twice but not consistant. It happens when opening or closing gui perhaps when playing a note. Could be a Reaper thing as well. I seem to recall some other vst would crash under the same circumstance. Fathom remains up am running. I could even save my settings but no output. There was input because I could still play galaxian. Hehe. I will continue to try for a consistant reproduction.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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Please forgive my two previous posts when I refer to Amp or VCA. What I am really trying to say is envelope generator. I am so used to looking at VCA labels on virtual machines.

Soooo.... to clarify. Is there a way to have all audio objects and their modulators pass through an ADSR envelope generator before the master volume output

This is seperate from the issue of the osc seeming to be in parallel with the filter that is connected in series.
We jumped the fence because it was a fence not be cause the grass was greener.
https://scrubbingmonkeys.bandcamp.com/
https://sites.google.com/view/scrubbing-monkeys

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Just demoed this,quite a decent synth.one thing that pretty much put me off the idea of purchasing it entirely is the fact that,the lower the note you play,the more top end is rolled off.what's the deal with that?that's something i'd associate with sampled oscillators
I

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SM, I think I know what you are saying. That is exactly why you will notice the partials dial
goes down to zero instead of one, so that when you modulate it you get a nice clean
envelope all the way down to "nothing", just like a filter.

But to answer your question, currently Fathom does not have a master ADSR which
everything goes through. I know it might be convenient but I've tried to avoid that sort
of thing to make it more versatile in the long run. I personally don't like built in ADSR's
and would prefer to specifically assign the same ADSR to, for instance, both the master
volume and filter frequency, if that's what I want to do. I admit its more work, but
then if you only want an ADSR on one thing and not the other you can do so.

TIMT, Hi, yes several people have noted that problem. The basic waveforms oscillator
really needs 128 partials not 64. That way you can put the partials all the way up to 128
and set Partials Max to around 10K, and then your low notes would have 128 partials
and the higher notes would still keep the partials under the alias limit. Sorry I have not
done that yet, but I'm planning on doing all the oscillator changes at once, which will be
the next release 1.0.11.

Its ironic, both these issues sort of go back to the same idea. We are all use to most synthesizers
doing a lot of this stuff for us automatically, so using Fathom can take some getting use to
since it does nothing automatically, you have to always tell it exactly what you want it to do.
I programmed it that way intentionally since I got frustrated with "toy" synthesizers
that provided no way to access what is going on inside under the hood.

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Hmm, which leads me to an idea, I wonder if its time to give Fathom the ability to select a default program, that is make any program you want, with say for instance a master ADSR, or the Analog Saw with 128 partials already created, and click on a button, and make that the default program that is always created when a new instance is added to the host?

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good idea

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Feature Requests (speed up sound design):
- Randomize/Mutate Button - Create a new patch/preset by weaving together complete random combinations.
- Offspring Button - Create a new patch/preset by interpolating 2 or more existing presets.
- Next/Previous Buttons - Select the next/prior preset in a list.
- All these functions as vst parameters or midi learn (connect external hardware to randomize).

All this is really just about quickly coming up with new sounds without giving it much thought. I enjoy making music with the computer screen off/down and these would really help. :-)

V
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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