Hi
My equipment:
Athlon2500+
512RAM
integrated soundcard
sx1
good mastering vsts by waves and voxengo
some decent vsti
My music: electronic, some techno, trance, ambient in my own way.
Now, my music CDs still sounds dumb. After moving from reason I hoped they wouldn't
The thing is that I do pay a lot of attention to mastering, I try not to overdo with compression or EQ, etc.
I have a suspicion that using simple headphones for music production may make it impossible to produce good sound.
Do you know if hi quality headphones, like sennheiser (HD550, I guess - that's the acclaimed model) will give me a chance of hearing noticeably wider range of sound, so that the mixes will sound good, unless I spoil them?
I know that there are plenty of possible improvements, but I don't want to spend a fortune on
hardware compressor and instruments, analogue tape recorder, expensive soundcard, etc.
Will expensive, said-to-be decent headphones do, or will it appear to be another gadget at home music prod set?
Thanx
Tom
will hi quality sennheiser headphones do for econ msx prod?
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- KVRist
- 466 posts since 14 Nov, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
Hi Total,
Your judicious use of limiting, compression and EQ is the right approach. In mastering, less is always more, and a cut is usually better than a boost.
Are you proofing your mixers on studio monitors and every other speaker you can find before burning a master? Or are you relying exclusively on your 'phones?
If you rely exclusively on headphones, your mixes will not translate universally. An unfortunate fact of life and acoustics, I'm afraid.
Rather than investing in more expensive headphones, you might want to consider a decent pair of monitors.
Might not be what you want to hear, but even after 20 years of recording, enigineering and producing I still get "bit" if I rely only on 'phones to mix.
Good luck!
Your judicious use of limiting, compression and EQ is the right approach. In mastering, less is always more, and a cut is usually better than a boost.
Are you proofing your mixers on studio monitors and every other speaker you can find before burning a master? Or are you relying exclusively on your 'phones?
If you rely exclusively on headphones, your mixes will not translate universally. An unfortunate fact of life and acoustics, I'm afraid.
Rather than investing in more expensive headphones, you might want to consider a decent pair of monitors.
Might not be what you want to hear, but even after 20 years of recording, enigineering and producing I still get "bit" if I rely only on 'phones to mix.
Good luck!
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 466 posts since 14 Nov, 2003
IC
But I reckon monitors will cost much more than even expensive headphones..
What is the minimum price of good enough, but not too good (for music made on a computer) monitors? Can you give some names and models?
Nothing else essential for use of them?
But I reckon monitors will cost much more than even expensive headphones..
What is the minimum price of good enough, but not too good (for music made on a computer) monitors? Can you give some names and models?
Nothing else essential for use of them?
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 27 May, 2004
I use a set of senhieser hd 570's these are perfect for me and eq/compression is heard perfectly. I also use a set of cheap sonys i bought at a local store and some cheap yamahaw speakers...i test songs on all three to make sure they sound good for everyone...maybe thats what you should do.
www.kolemcrae.co.nr - You can't spell creativity without Kole...Wait, yes you can.
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- KVRAF
- 2582 posts since 24 Apr, 2003 from Canada
I use Senn HD580s. Much more detail than any monitor I could ever afford 
I agree the stereo image is a little messed on headphones - so I use my hifi speakers just for imaging purposes. Works pretty well.
I agree the stereo image is a little messed on headphones - so I use my hifi speakers just for imaging purposes. Works pretty well.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 466 posts since 14 Nov, 2003
what about the soundcard - integrated ac'97 type? won't i hear that it's bvllsh1t on such headphones?
when using normal headphones I am quite happy with the sound.
could you guys give some links to tunes you mastered with senns?
when using normal headphones I am quite happy with the sound.
could you guys give some links to tunes you mastered with senns?
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- KVRAF
- 9064 posts since 1 Aug, 2003
the ac97 will give you some noise, but if you use soft synths only and master with the audio export function, the master will be fine.TOTAL wrote:what about the soundcard - integrated ac'97 type? won't i hear that it's bvllsh1t on such headphones?
when using normal headphones I am quite happy with the sound.
could you guys give some links to tunes you mastered with senns?
the fact that the ADC-DAC convertors of the AC97 aren't as good as the ones found in pro soundcards doens't really matter either (for the same reason).
of course, while you're monitoring, mixing, whatever... good cans will make the noise and convertion audible.
oh, and all the music on my homepage (link below) is mastered with senns.
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Find the weakest link in your setup, and replace it. That is in general a good approach for a low-budget home setup.
First you thought Reason made it sound dull. Now you're on sx/vst and you say it hasn't improved. Does not surprise me... Neither will an analogue tape recorder. They're designed not to "colour" recordings, although they all do in practice.
Replacing all so-so components is in your case not cheap, although you might be happy with an audiophile card and a Beyerdynamics headphone. Try to arrange a setup in which you can compare the card to your internal AC97, or the headphone you want to buy. Do not buy it based on advice only, listen to it before you buy!
Listening to your mix on only one set of phones is not getting you anywhere, no matter what phones you use. The same goes for expensive monitors.
Burn the track on a CD and take it wherever you go and listen to it on as many different hifi, lofi & car sets as possible. Then decide what to improve in the mix/master, and change that, review it, etc until you are happy.
Find the weakest link in your setup, and replace it...
First you thought Reason made it sound dull. Now you're on sx/vst and you say it hasn't improved. Does not surprise me... Neither will an analogue tape recorder. They're designed not to "colour" recordings, although they all do in practice.
Replacing all so-so components is in your case not cheap, although you might be happy with an audiophile card and a Beyerdynamics headphone. Try to arrange a setup in which you can compare the card to your internal AC97, or the headphone you want to buy. Do not buy it based on advice only, listen to it before you buy!
Listening to your mix on only one set of phones is not getting you anywhere, no matter what phones you use. The same goes for expensive monitors.
Burn the track on a CD and take it wherever you go and listen to it on as many different hifi, lofi & car sets as possible. Then decide what to improve in the mix/master, and change that, review it, etc until you are happy.
Find the weakest link in your setup, and replace it...
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
maybe we need a better description than sound dumb
i used to want the few CDs I burned to be as loud as commercial CDs. When I got there I realized it actually sounded pretty harsh and I've backed off to being quieter, but with more dynamic range.
here is the tool that gave me the most insight to a lot of what was going on
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/inspector/
i try to keep a mix on average in the -6 to -15 range with peaks up to -1.5
also given the quality of most vsts these days, they can stand on their own. it's in the percussion area that sometimes needs considerable tweaking for a pro sound. that's where splitting a kit into kick for compression, hihats for flange/phasor, snares for reverb and all that comes in.
i usually start a project with a nice beat, get all the parts in place and then go back and start processing the drums and setting up the beat variations. i think it's the area that makes the biggest perceived sound quality difference
(but then I'ma drummer at heart so what can you expect)
also another sound quality enhancer (if not overdone) is adding some animation to instruments by using some cc/envelope control or just simple volume/velocity adjustment through a track. I think a lot of dumb sounding tracks lack expressive playing and that actually comes pretty easy with some velocity sensitivity/adjustments (even in drum tracks)
an dthe other biggie (i'm trying to learn) is eq'ing the bottom, middle and high ranges to keep that sonic space open for their primary occupiers and filtering out intruders.
i used to want the few CDs I burned to be as loud as commercial CDs. When I got there I realized it actually sounded pretty harsh and I've backed off to being quieter, but with more dynamic range.
here is the tool that gave me the most insight to a lot of what was going on
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/inspector/
i try to keep a mix on average in the -6 to -15 range with peaks up to -1.5
also given the quality of most vsts these days, they can stand on their own. it's in the percussion area that sometimes needs considerable tweaking for a pro sound. that's where splitting a kit into kick for compression, hihats for flange/phasor, snares for reverb and all that comes in.
i usually start a project with a nice beat, get all the parts in place and then go back and start processing the drums and setting up the beat variations. i think it's the area that makes the biggest perceived sound quality difference
(but then I'ma drummer at heart so what can you expect)
also another sound quality enhancer (if not overdone) is adding some animation to instruments by using some cc/envelope control or just simple volume/velocity adjustment through a track. I think a lot of dumb sounding tracks lack expressive playing and that actually comes pretty easy with some velocity sensitivity/adjustments (even in drum tracks)
an dthe other biggie (i'm trying to learn) is eq'ing the bottom, middle and high ranges to keep that sonic space open for their primary occupiers and filtering out intruders.
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- KVRAF
- 3420 posts since 26 Mar, 2002 from london
Creating good mixes is an art-form. There's no simple set of rules that you can pick up in a couple of weeks.
Every day takes figuring out all over again how to f#ckin’ live.
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- KVRAF
- 1907 posts since 29 Oct, 2003
http://www.dnbscene.com/articles.php?mode=display&id=79
some simple things to read. can help making *building blocks* that make some sense eq-wise. i suspect you don't have to be a dnb producer to follow this.
so you can ask someone with trusty sound system to play your tracks and your reference tracks and you can then translate problematic areas (maybe even visually) into corrective methods needed to improve your mix to be more universally playable.
some simple things to read. can help making *building blocks* that make some sense eq-wise. i suspect you don't have to be a dnb producer to follow this.
so you can ask someone with trusty sound system to play your tracks and your reference tracks and you can then translate problematic areas (maybe even visually) into corrective methods needed to improve your mix to be more universally playable.
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- KVRAF
- 7886 posts since 24 Feb, 2003 from Earth, USA
Get a decent sound card, Audiophile's are now $99 for example, and some decent monitors. Monitors will run you $200-$400 for something 'decent'.
If you thought Reason was your problem, then you have issues elsewhere. Mixing on headphones isn't helping you either. You don't have to spend a TON of money here, you could even find monitors on Ebay, and be patient. Still, the soundcard and lack of monitors are your weakest link.
Devon
If you thought Reason was your problem, then you have issues elsewhere. Mixing on headphones isn't helping you either. You don't have to spend a TON of money here, you could even find monitors on Ebay, and be patient. Still, the soundcard and lack of monitors are your weakest link.
Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 466 posts since 14 Nov, 2003
what about audio equipment instead?
I have read posts from maximalists who say a couple of pairs of monitors and dedicated room for auditioning is a must.
home audio - will it work for mastering demos?
does it work for anybody here?
I have read posts from maximalists who say a couple of pairs of monitors and dedicated room for auditioning is a must.
home audio - will it work for mastering demos?
does it work for anybody here?