Soft studio's why and which? P5, R, and FL

[sluggo]

Live definitely supports vst effects (since v2 I think).

[stale bread]

yeah mike live does support vst efx and vsti instruments quite well, the only caveat being that vsti instruments null and void while rewired to another app. but outside of that vst very much alive and kickin in live and the implementation is quite beautiful, simple and powerful to use.

as far as the editing the clip, what you'd do is unfold the clip and either do a split audio command from the menu or type cntrl-E i believe, and of course its all non destructive and taking up no more of your memory storage

[mike85021]

Live definitely supports vst effects (since v2 I think).

OOOkay, how do you insert them? You can't drop a dll onto the effects pad from outside the program. You can't browse to your plug-in folder. Is there some import function I haven't discovered? Again, they have a nice selection of effects, but WYSIWYG.

I'm not arguing that Live 4 isn't an excellent program. If your primary interest is in performing live, AND you are basically happy stringing clips together (most easily other’s, but also your own) AND concentrate on dance, hip-hop, and similar genre, then by all means, Live 4 will make you very happy. However, if there’s more composer in you, other programs would be more fitting – P5 or Sonar 4 for that matter.

I was hot to get Live 4, but I don’t do live performances (except for myself). There are some incredibly good features in Live 4, but I haven’t completed one song – just lots of starts. Not so with P5. I get things done in P5. I end up just twiddling with features in Live, and making unending changes in a song or two.

[bugs]

I use both Fl Studio and Reason and like them both. Never used Project Five, but it looks interesting, but don't really need it. (I probably don't need most of the million and one free effects and synths I have on my hard drive either.)

I use FL Studio primarily as a percussion/rhythm/pattern sequencer either as a standalone or VST plugin with Cubase SX. I realize it is capable of more than this, but I consider it the ultimate drum machine. My MIDI sequencing is mostly notation based (Sibelius), but percussion sequencing in a notator can be tedious and tiresome, and in electronic music absolutely no one is interested in a seeing "the score".

I use Reason almost exclusively as a Rewire slave in Cubase SX, Acid and Fl Studio. I find the sequencer very limiting. Once I realized (duh!) that pretty much everything in Reason is inherently "dry" and "raw" and that I needed additional processing (especially reverb--love that RV7000!) on nearly everything, I came to be very much enamored with the whole setup. It is very nostaglic in a way, it's not only an emulation of the modules, but an emulation of the processes as well. A very clever piece of work.

This computer music thing is fun.

[sluggo]

how do you insert them?

I keep all my vst plugins (fx and instruments) under the same directory and sub-directories. In the preferences I point the file path to this directory (d:\vstplugins for me). Now I can insert my vst fx exactly the same way that I insert the vst instruments. On the upper left-hand side of the screen in Live, there's an icon for the Plug-in Device Browser: it's the third icon down. Your vst effects should be listed and you drag'n'drop.

I certainly prefer P5 to Live4 for midi composition though.

sluggo

[stale bread]

mike what you're saying you can't do is exactly what you can do, in your live preffs under the plugin tab there is a browse box for you to browse and select where your vst fx and vstis are located (where ever you want) you select that path close the preffs dialogue box and your in business. then on the left side of the screen where the live sample browser is is the same place that your vstis and vst fx as well as live efx and instruments are listed and then you drag and drop them right on that empty space you were talking about...try it you will like it.

[BONES]

Reason was the first audio application I used that was almost 100% intuitive to me. So far I have yet to find myself limited by its programming.

Except that you need Traktion "for tracking audio or any VSTis that I like to use" which was completely my point. I only need ORION Platinum and I guarantee I could go a hell of a long way further before I even needed to think about using any 3rd party plugins. i.e. It has more internal instruments and effects [by a factor of 3 or 4] and they all sounding incredibly good.

[soulkraka]

hey mike

maybe give the manual a brief (make that in-depth)
once over will ya

[mike85021]

how do you insert them?

... icon for the Plug-in Device Browser: it's the third icon down. Your vst effects should be listed and you drag'n'drop.

I certainly prefer P5 to Live4 for midi composition though.

sluggo

DUH! Thanks for not calling me stupid! Most of the VST's I have are located in one folder, but some programs have placed them elsewhere -- Is it Steinberg that insists on putting them in its own special place? And then of course Cakewalk wants things in Shared Components, and although you can customize it to anywhere, I’ve given up and allow it to have its way with me.

Anyway, I have a huge number of VST synths in my plug folder, and not many effects. I was overlooking those. Sure enough, they plug in, so thanks Sluggo & Stale Bread for your patience and guidance. However, Live will only look at one folder for plugs, right? Other programs I have will let me select three or more additional plug folders. I was trying to grab my stray plugs using the other folder icons, and they only load from the plug folder icon.

Do you think I'd have registery problems if I copied dlls from other folders to my main plug folder?

[theshaggyfreak]

Reason was the first audio application I used that was almost 100% intuitive to me. So far I have yet to find myself limited by its programming.

Except that you need Traktion "for tracking audio or any VSTis that I like to use" which was completely my point. I only need ORION Platinum and I guarantee I could go a hell of a long way further before I even needed to think about using any 3rd party plugins. i.e. It has more internal instruments and effects [by a factor of 3 or 4] and they all sounding incredibly good.

To me that's not a limitation. I guess it's just a matter of preference. Yesterday I took a look at Orion, and it just didn't really give me the instant gratification that Reason did when I first tried it. *shrug* That's why there are so many programs out there to do all these things. People will find one better to their liking than others.

*Edit*

Okay, I should elaborate a little on what I didn't like about Orion compared to Reason. One of the biggest things I like about Reason is that nearly everything is in one window. There's nothing hiding behind other windows. I think that's one of the big things that drew me to Tracktion too. As soon as I opened Reason for the first time, I felt comfortable with the interface. Orion reminds me too much of Fruityloops in that respect, and it just felt clumsy to me. I'm sure Orion is a good program, but it's just not for me.

[xg2]

Orion Platinum V5.82

US$298? When did OP become so expensive?

When the programmer found that the biased magazines wouldn't even review it unless it cost as much as 'professional' software. So because of a handful of techno-snob idiots, most of us now can't afford to buy Orion.

If it was £30, wouldn't sales go up by about a factor of fifty?

[christianmusicmaker]

Do you think I'd have registery problems if I copied dlls from other folders to my main plug folder?

Hi mike...

If you copy dll's you should not have registry issues.I do this alot. However keep track of what you have copied and you should be fine. No guarantees of course as your PC set up is almost certainly different to mine but it should be OK.

[xg2]

The rules could be bent in order to accommodate revolutionary products that don't entirely play by the rules...

I would be very interested to know in what way you see Reason as revolutionary, especially as it came out a couple of years after Fruity and more than a year after ORION's first release.

Perhaps it's revolutionary because "It looks like a whole RACK of synths! Think how much they would cost to buy in hardware"

It's 'revolutionary' to people who knew sod all computer music before they 'came' across Reason (quite literally, probably...)

[BONES]

That's been tried in the 3D industry and it didn't work - Maya's sales almost doubled but their income halved. Now Softimage are desperate enough to try the same thing.

[xg2]

And as for Orion, I'm really not sure about the impact that programme has made on the music profession worldwide - but perhaps you can tell me?

And that really says it all. Reason's success is completely and utterly based on its marketing and not in any way on any advantage it may have.

Exactly. Reason has been hyped from the rafters, and those who knew nothing about computer music fell for this hype. Reason doesn't even support VST, which shows how closed minded its users are.

It is more stable than other applications purly because it is a closed system and doesn't have to deal with plugins coded by a thousand other developers. ReWire only exists because propellerheads want to keep everything closed so it works for them and causes everyone else all manner of nightmare trying to integrate it into their host environment.
I tried the version 1 demo when it came out and I saw/heard nothing that made me think that it was better than ORION version 1.8 or 1.9 in any respect. It was certainly no where near as fully-featured. At the same time Fruityloops was at about v2.7 and, whilst still without VSTi support, it boasted a number of usable, decent sounding built-in synths and was more than a year beyond its humble drum machine roots. Since then I've enjoyed countless dozens of regular, mostly free updates that have extended ORION's capabilities by several orders of magnitude. In the same time Reason users have had a couple of lame updates that amount to point releases in Fruity or ORION.

Exactly. Reason users seem so grateful to get the most feeble of updates after YEARS - because Reason is lacking so much. VST support. MIDI out. Minor things like that.

Anyway, most people I know wanted ReWire for ReBirth more than Reason.
As for ReCycle, I was using WaveSurgeon before I'd ever heard fo ReCycle. Again, it was the marketing budgets that won the day.

I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.

Maybe its because we are much better informed than the Liam Twatfaces of the world and are aware that there are far better alternatives than closed, proprietary systems with stupid interfaces and average filters. Alternatives that offer complete solutions of the highest quality rather than hobbled toys that can barely stand alone, sending you into a downward spiral of buying more and more software to finish the job.

That's what Reason is all about. "Just use Rewire with Cubase/etc." they scream. What a brilliant solution. To use VSTs, just buy a completely separate sequencer and run it at the same time. What a good solution to a simple problem - why don't Propellerheads just add VST support?

Reason isn't a VST host, which is why it isn't mentioned much here - this is a VST site!!!