That Civilization Phase III -album belongs to the best of his (mainly) instrumental pieces.
Amnerika is a pastiche and refers to the Edgar
Varèse, who began his work in the United States with the piece Amériques (the first time I've seen a fire siren as an instrument in the middle of symphony orchestra, RSO played the Amériques about a year ago in Helsinki).
Zappa was influenced by Varèse at very early age.
Stravinsky was one of the composers E.V. admired, but even more Erik Satie, Claude Debussy and Ferruccio Busoni, who particularly influenced him
in the 10-20's.
(BTW, Busoni was a very good friend and soulmate with one of my countryman, Jean Sibelius, they had together a 2 years long binge in the late 19th century when Busoni stayed in Helsinki.)
Zappa - what a tight music arranger
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
The title Amnerika is a portmanteau of amnesia and Amerika. Spelling, cf., Kafka's Amerika.
Musically it isn't really Varèse-like. It's a modal melody supported by some complex hocketing.
- rhythmic linear technique using the alternation of notes, pitches, or chords. In the medieval practice of hocket, a single melody is shared between two or more voices such that alternately one voice sounds while the other rests.
Musically it isn't really Varèse-like. It's a modal melody supported by some complex hocketing.
- rhythmic linear technique using the alternation of notes, pitches, or chords. In the medieval practice of hocket, a single melody is shared between two or more voices such that alternately one voice sounds while the other rests.
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- KVRAF
- 16136 posts since 13 Nov, 2012
As a band leader Zappa was first rate.
He knew how to communicate extremely well and was able to get the musicians to think out side the box.
Both, as a musician and band leader, his mind was very organized, yet he was very able to think abstractly.
A combination of skills that made him exceptional.
He knew how to communicate extremely well and was able to get the musicians to think out side the box.
Both, as a musician and band leader, his mind was very organized, yet he was very able to think abstractly.
A combination of skills that made him exceptional.
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- KVRAF
- 25849 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
As far as I have read about him, as a band leader he was also very very strict, I think he cancelled one tour late in his career because he wouldn't agree to the band making some demands.PatchAdamz wrote:As a band leader Zappa was first rate.
He knew how to communicate extremely well and was able to get the musicians to think out side the box.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
The last tour, 1988 saw one member decided to despise another member and work to turn the whole band against him. Ed Mann (percussion) wanted to be 'clonemeister' but FZ liked Scott Thunes (bass) for the task. It's someone that has to know the arrangements, everybody's part, for as far as that can be managed, to work with the band (lead rehearsals) in FZ's absence. Some of the older members would show up late and be too nonchalant rather than respect ST's authoritah. In Mike Keneally's words 'Scott was abrasive, but in service of the music'. Thunes has a sense of humor that not everybody appreciates.
MK was one member that did not have this problem with ST. So finally I think everyone else came to FZ to say 'I can't work with Scott Thunes', in succession; and FZ wasn't about to fire Thunes and expect to keep touring with that repertoire (probably the largest repertoire of any of his bands, 120 or something tunes) with a non-existent replacement. Thunes on bass was a big part of the sound. Rehearsals in prep for this tour went on for I think seven months.
So the tour was now over.
MK was one member that did not have this problem with ST. So finally I think everyone else came to FZ to say 'I can't work with Scott Thunes', in succession; and FZ wasn't about to fire Thunes and expect to keep touring with that repertoire (probably the largest repertoire of any of his bands, 120 or something tunes) with a non-existent replacement. Thunes on bass was a big part of the sound. Rehearsals in prep for this tour went on for I think seven months.
So the tour was now over.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Numanoid said: "I think he cancelled one tour late in his career because he wouldn't agree to the band making some demands."
What does your post have to do with anything beyond your need to troll?
I asked Thunes about details of this on Facebook, there was a thread on this a couple years back, for instance 'did Wackerman really take you out of his monitor mixes at one point?' He did.
There's a version of this story which has everybody except Keneally confronting FZ en masse, which doesn't appear to be the case. "f**k Albert Wing and all those guys" - Thunes, 27 years down the line.
In Cold Sweat, Interviews with Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor goes into this.
I'm not certain of the accuracy of this, Wictor
so I asked Thunes a couple of things.
Recently Thunes posted a video of his daughter singing Brandy with him supporting her on guitar.
I said 'I have to admit I always loved that song' and he said "Like it says in the movie, it's 'probably Earth's greatest creation'."
and you should see his replies to trolls
"So you can take your 'opinion' - [...] - and shove it right in the old beef mailbox."
edit: corrected misplaced italics for book title
What does your post have to do with anything beyond your need to troll?
I asked Thunes about details of this on Facebook, there was a thread on this a couple years back, for instance 'did Wackerman really take you out of his monitor mixes at one point?' He did.
There's a version of this story which has everybody except Keneally confronting FZ en masse, which doesn't appear to be the case. "f**k Albert Wing and all those guys" - Thunes, 27 years down the line.
In Cold Sweat, Interviews with Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor goes into this.
I'm not certain of the accuracy of this, Wictor
so I asked Thunes a couple of things.Recently Thunes posted a video of his daughter singing Brandy with him supporting her on guitar.
I said 'I have to admit I always loved that song' and he said "Like it says in the movie, it's 'probably Earth's greatest creation'."
and you should see his replies to trolls
"So you can take your 'opinion' - [...] - and shove it right in the old beef mailbox."
edit: corrected misplaced italics for book title
Last edited by jancivil on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
It Must Be a Camel, Little Umbrellas and Twenty Small Cigars represent a type of jazz-informed composition that is unique, imbued with certain proclivities of Zappa's which are simply *his*; and it's gratifying to see jazz ensembles today doing them. Unique also in that this style appeared for a pretty short time only.
Talking about arrangement:
also to the whole Thunes in 1988 problem; according to the interview with Wictor for that book, when Thunes had the Ravel Bolero score, Wackerman came up to him while he was studying and asked he could borrow Thunes' copy. ST said "f**k you, get your own copy" to which Wackerman did "Don't ever say that to me" and their relationship was ruined.
(and this is why my interest, that breaks my heart)
Well, something like that happened apparently but Thunes claimed inaccuracy by Wictor there when I asked.
I linked to this as what happened is the Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life version replaces the Barcelona audio, and IMO it's the better version.
Talking about arrangement:
also to the whole Thunes in 1988 problem; according to the interview with Wictor for that book, when Thunes had the Ravel Bolero score, Wackerman came up to him while he was studying and asked he could borrow Thunes' copy. ST said "f**k you, get your own copy" to which Wackerman did "Don't ever say that to me" and their relationship was ruined.
(and this is why my interest, that breaks my heart)
Well, something like that happened apparently but Thunes claimed inaccuracy by Wictor there when I asked.
I linked to this as what happened is the Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life version replaces the Barcelona audio, and IMO it's the better version.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5440 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki
Hot Rats belongs absolutely to the top 5 Zappa albums.
Zappa did so many styles and approaches, no wonder there are many things I don´t like at all.
The above "Zappa´s Bolero" is one of those quasi-humorous experiments. Ravel´s Bolero, played by a good symhony orchestra, is really a facinating, hypnotic piece. Zappa´s versio is just boring.
Zappa did so many styles and approaches, no wonder there are many things I don´t like at all.
The above "Zappa´s Bolero" is one of those quasi-humorous experiments. Ravel´s Bolero, played by a good symhony orchestra, is really a facinating, hypnotic piece. Zappa´s versio is just boring.
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- KVRAF
- 16757 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
This thread is for loving on Zappa, so get your love machine warmed up and get ready for some Zappa lovemaking.incubus wrote:So? I mean what does that have to do with the original post other than some obscure quasi-fact?
Or not...your choice...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/mu ... cal-genuis
(emphasis mine)
Yes, all right, we get it. Some of our more impressionable citizens love Frank Zappa. Each to their own. But listening to his albums 20 years ago, they always struck me as deeply irritating, full of interminable guitar wankery, crappy faux-classical passages and crass sexual satire.
...
It became clear that Zappa had become more embittered with every new release. Under the guise of provocative social commentary, his songs dripped contempt for virtually everyone: Hippies, conservatives, blacks, gays, Jews, women and, most of all, himself.
After two exhausting days visiting Planet Zappa, I was desperate to leave again. But at least I have clarified my position. The next time a stranger comes up to me in a takeaway bar and proclaims Frank Zappa a genius, I can say, no, my friend, Frank Zappa was a conservative posing as a revolutionary, a snickering teenage boy masquerading as a grown man, a gifted musician happy to squander his talent on cheap smut and fart jokes.
Frank Zappa was irony made flesh: a tireless anti-censorship activist whose songs tested the limits of free speech but, in the end, had nothing worthwhile to say.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, that's just not liking something. And it's not getting it, it's not an experiment, the thrust is not 'humour', it's that he likes that rhythmic approach a lot and thought it was good for that particular band to do specifically that arrangement. I would say additionally that it's totally respectful.Harry_HH wrote:Hot Rats belongs absolutely to the top 5 Zappa albums.
Zappa did so many styles and approaches, no wonder there are many things I don´t like at all.
The above "Zappa´s Bolero" is one of those quasi-humorous experiments. Ravel´s Bolero, played by a good symhony orchestra, is really a facinating, hypnotic piece. Zappa´s versio is just boring.
For instance, Bolero is a dance type of Spain. And there is a layer of another flamenco rhythm applied to it over the reggae (I have forgotten which). It's very advanced rhythmically.
Well, the My Sharona quote may be humorous.
But it works.
I think I can come up with five FZ albums I like better than Hot Rats easily. And they might be ones you hate. FZ actually found the focus on Hot Rats, particularly in Great Britain, strange and it kind of irritated him to see 'Hot Rats is the last Zappa album that's any good' and suchlike.