Alternative to Hive

[chk071]

I'd also assume that there should be CPU cycles in "idle state" for synths whose oscillators are free-running/always on.

Anyway, this beats my knowledge really. Maybe a dev wants to chime in, and clear that.

[recursive one]

Rapid No preset browser, expects you to use the OS file manager to browser presets that aren't even categorized in any way.

The preset browser may be found by clicking "M" in the upper left corner of the GUI, this is what it looks like

[ilmai]

Do you mean that one side shows envelopes, and LFO's 1 and 2, and the other side 3 and 4? Well, the point obviously was that you have the important control of amp and filter envelopes visible at one time. Frankly, if you're a bit used to modulation in other synths, i don't see much of an issue with that.

I meant that you can for example route LFO1 to a filter both from the LFO and from the modulation matrix, so you can make the same routing twice in two different places, which might get super confusing especially if you are tweaking presets instead of making sounds from scratch.

This may very well sound like splitting hairs, and of course none of my complaints make the synths I tested unusable. But since I'm comparing several synths and usability is a big factor for me, I'm comparing things like ease of modulation routing. Soundwise, I would be happy with almost all of the synths I tested, and I would probably be reasonably happy with any of them from a usability standpoint as well.

When testing, I first went through some presets to get an idea for how the synth sounded. Then I took a preset that was close to what I was trying to do and see if I understood roughly what it was doing (not obvious in many of the synths I tested), then tweak it to suit my needs more closely, paying attention to how quick and easy it was. If I was happy at this point, I then tried how easy it is to do more extensive modifications and sound design. In the end, I was left with the three synths I mentioned.

[fluffy_little_something]

I'd also assume that there should be CPU cycles in "idle state" for synths whose oscillators are free-running/always on.

Anyway, this beats my knowledge really. Maybe a dev wants to chime in, and clear that.

I don't think so in the case of free-running. Sylenth1 falls back to idle without any CPU usage. I don't know how it works inside, but maybe they use a kind of random generator to determine the starting point of the phase when a new note is played.
If I am not mistaken, Roland plug-outs have always-on oscillators. Repro, too.

[recursive one]

Do you mean that one side shows envelopes, and LFO's 1 and 2, and the other side 3 and 4? Well, the point obviously was that you have the important control of amp and filter envelopes visible at one time. Frankly, if you're a bit used to modulation in other synths, i don't see much of an issue with that.

I meant that you can for example route LFO1 to a filter both from the LFO and from the modulation matrix, so you can make the same routing twice in two different places, which might get super confusing especially if you are tweaking presets instead of making sounds from scratch.

Indeed, that's a weird design choice. As much as I love designing sounds in Spire I'm still often getting confused by this, even when I'm tweaking patches which I have made myself. It would be much better if any assignment made from the LFO or ENV section would automatically appear in the modmatrix.

Actually this stems from the LFO section of the Virus Control plugin which was obviously a main source of inspiration for Spire, which in turn probably stems from the Virus hardware interface.

[ilmai]

The preset browser may be found by clicking "M" in the upper left corner of the GUI

Wow, I completely missed that! There were other UI issues though, like changing modulation amount requiring you to dig through the scrollable routing list. Or if there's another way, there's no manual I could check, just some online help pages that don't explain much except for OSC and filter parameters. Compared to Serum, aside from the UI issues there's no wavetable editor either. Layers are nice though and it definitely doesn't sound bad.

[ENV1]

I don't think so in the case of free-running. Sylenth1 falls back to idle without any CPU usage. I don't know how it works inside, but maybe they use a kind of random generator to determine the starting point of the phase when a new note is played.

Or they simply keep calculating the phase position and send the proper value to the osc when a note is pressed.

(After all its all digital.)

It would pretty much count from 0 to 359 (with a few decimals) and then start over.

A 'calculation' as simple as that wouldnt even register on a Pentium 60.

(Just a wild guess, i have no idea how everyone is doing it either.)

[recursive one]

There were other UI issues though, like changing modulation amount requiring you to dig through the scrollable routing list. Or if there's another way

Afaik, there is none. That's a PITA indeed. When you start adding more modulations things may get really messy very fast. For me that's the only downside of the Rapid's GUI (except that it looks butt-ugly but this is of no importance for me). Such a poorly designed modmatrix is weird especially because the ergonomics of the synth is otherwise very well thought.

[chk071]

Do you mean that one side shows envelopes, and LFO's 1 and 2, and the other side 3 and 4? Well, the point obviously was that you have the important control of amp and filter envelopes visible at one time. Frankly, if you're a bit used to modulation in other synths, i don't see much of an issue with that.

I meant that you can for example route LFO1 to a filter both from the LFO and from the modulation matrix, so you can make the same routing twice in two different places, which might get super confusing especially if you are tweaking presets instead of making sounds from scratch.

Isn't that a plus though? That way you don't have to waste a mod matrix slot for something trivial. Same holds true for Waldorf Largo, or the u-he synths, which have important modulation sources already present in the respective sections, e.g. the oscillator, or filter section. It's at least a plus in my book.

[ilmai]

Afaik, there is none. That's a PITA indeed. When you start adding more modulations things may get really messy very fast. For me that's the only downside of the Rapid's GUI (except that it looks butt-ugly but this is of no importance for me). Such a poorly designed modmatrix is weird especially because the ergonomics of the synth is otherwise very well thought.

Yeah, it's a shame, and I tried to find another way since I didn't believe that feature could be missing. On the other hand, that doesn't sound like a huge thing to fix in an update. Just steal what Serum is doing since the UI is doing that in other ways. Anyway, I'm happy with the three synths I chose for further testing, so not a real loss for me.

[fluffy_little_something]

Anyway, I'm happy with the three synths I chose for further testing, so not a real loss for me.

Do use the EQ in Sylenth1, it is simple, but can make it sound much more analog and powerful (without EQ it sounds a bit bland, linear, bright in my view). Of the hundreds of patches I have made so far, I don't think there is a single one without EQ

Actually, you have two EQ's in Sylenth1, the second one is the phaser, a powerful sound-shaping tool when you turn the phaser LFO Gain to zero and change the Center Frequency and Spread controls.

[ilmai]

Anyway, I'm happy with the three synths I chose for further testing, so not a real loss for me.

Do use the EQ in Sylenth1, it is simple, but can make it sound much more analog and powerful (without EQ it sounds a bit bland, linear, bright in my view). Of the hundreds of patches I have made so far, I don't think there is a single one without EQ

Actually, you have two EQ's in Sylenth1, the second one is the phaser, a powerful sound-shaping tool when you turn the phaser LFO Gain to zero and change the Center Frequency and Spread controls.

Good to know

But Sylenth1 will have to wait, and Serum as well. While learning more about these synths and reading the Diva manual, I was following the programming 101 section and my sense of time disappeared as I was lost playing with this silly little tutorial preset. I was just completely blown away by the sound quality. I'll still have to some more experimenting, but I'm fairly sure Diva will be my first synth purchase (if you don't count Komplete, which I didn't get for the synths specifically).

[chk071]

Don't disregard Massive, and, Monark from the Komplete synths though. Especially Monark's sound quality is mind-boggling.

[ilmai]

Don't disregard Massive, and, Monark from the Komplete synths though. Especially Monark's sound quality is mind-boggling.

Sure I use both, and the rest of Komplete synths for specific sounds, but Massive is not terribly usable by today's standards - it doesn't invite me to learn sound design - and Monark is relatively limited in its spectrum (pun intended) of sounds. It does sound awesome though. Anyway, Diva seems a lot more flexible in the variety of sounds it can produce, and could very well fill the "go to synth" slot that's missing in my library.

[chk071]

Sure, purchasing Diva is surely never a mistake. Nice synth really.