KVR Audio

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:17 pm

I have Intel i7 -2600 @ 3,4 Ghz 8Gt Ram Win 7 64 bit.
While I usually haven't run out of my PC power yet, it still makes me wonder. Why do our PC's get slower without getting remarkably better sound?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:42 pm

deep'n'dark wrote:Why do our PC's get slower

Slower in what way? My i7 2700K still runs at the same speed it always did, around 4Ghz.

without getting remarkably better sound?

Doesnt make sense. Why would going slower make it sound better in the first place. What factor of sound are you expecting to be 'better?'

Boone777 · Post by **Boone777** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:51 pm

One reason is that it eventually gets bloated with a bunch of good and crappy software. If you try a fresh install you should see an improvement. Some software/os use more and more ressources also it could be it.

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:51 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
deep'n'dark wrote:Why do our PC's get slower
Slower in what way? My i7 2700K still runs at the same speed it always did, around 4Ghz.

without getting remarkably better sound?
Doesnt make sense. Why would going slower make it sound better in the first place. What factor of sound are you expecting to be 'better?'

Slower in synths especially. If my Reason 5 would be as easy on my PC's CPU as Reason 9.5.2, I'd understand as the sound is still the same. On what planet you're living on, we build new computers to get out of the CPU problems all the time.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:56 pm

The universe is expanding faster than your CPU. It means your PC is getting slower. Okay?

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:58 pm

I agree. Reason 9.5.2 is a cpu hog.
Never had any problem with my cpu before v 9.5 when they added hyperthreading support.
Go into edit/options in Reason and disable the enable hyperthreading and see if that helps.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:07 pm

deep'n'dark wrote:Slower in synths especially.

'in synths' means nothing. The same patch playing the same number of voices on the same version of the same synth will require the same CPU load on the same CPU a week after its built and ten years after its built.

It doesnt slow down.

If my Reason 5 would be as easy on my PC's CPU as Reason 9.5.2, I'd understand as the sound is still the same.

If Reason 9.5.2 was doing exactly the same things, then it would take the same amount of CPU. The fact that its doing more work isnt your PC slowing down.

On what planet you're living on, we build new computers to get out of the CPU problems all the time.

Well, Im going to hazard the opinion that Ive got a little bit more experience of building new computers than you, and of computers in general. And on the planet Im living on, we dont build new computers because the old ones are somehow slowing down, we build them because the stuff we're doing with those computers, ie the software running on them, is increasing the amount of work the computer has to do.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:11 pm

deep'n'dark wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
deep'n'dark wrote:Why do our PC's get slower
Slower in what way? My i7 2700K still runs at the same speed it always did, around 4Ghz.

without getting remarkably better sound?
Doesnt make sense. Why would going slower make it sound better in the first place. What factor of sound are you expecting to be 'better?'
Slower in synths especially. If my Reason 5 would be as easy on my PC's CPU as Reason 9.5.2, I'd understand as the sound is still the same. On what planet you're living on, we build new computers to get out of the CPU problems all the time.

He's saying that your computer isn't getting slower. Newer versions of your software are using more resources to run. Anytime a new feature is added, regardless of the significance to you, it will require more processing power.

The fact that a piece of software is more demanding on your CPU doesn't automatically mean that it's going to sound better. The 'sound' should never change. It's up to you to make things sound better but as you use more advanced tools to achieve that, they will likely also require more processing power.

Software developers determine what kinds of CPU loads are acceptable by doing performance tests on different machines. If the developer is focusing on modern machines, the slowest system they test with may be faster than the computer you are using. That was pretty common at my previous job. Other developers may do an equal amount of testing with older machines and newer ones. Or just focus performance testing on older machines, with the assumption that performance will scale up. But the developers almost always want their software to do more, at the cost of using more CPU.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:13 pm

Why do our PC's get slower

Usually PC get slow because unaware users install a crapton of bloatware and mess us the system. It's not like PCs are aging or whatever

flugel45 · Post by **flugel45** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:19 pm

I'm on a 6-year old home-built i7 2600k system, and I can do 50+ tracks with no problem. (56 has been my highest track count so far and I'm only using about 60% resources).

Are you keeping your PC clean and free from clutter and malware?

Of course, which DAW you use plays an important factor. I can't speak to DAWs that I don't have, so there might be certain ones (or releases) that just don't run very efficiently.

Are you using your FX efficiently? For example, I never use reverb as an insert effect. If you're putting a reverb (or worse, convolution reverb) on every track, then you might need to rethink your mixing approach.

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:28 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
deep'n'dark wrote:Slower in synths especially.
'in synths' means nothing. The same patch playing the same number of voices on the same version of the same synth will require the same CPU load on the same CPU a week after its built and ten years after its built.

It doesnt slow down.

If my Reason 5 would be as easy on my PC's CPU as Reason 9.5.2, I'd understand as the sound is still the same.
If Reason 9.5.2 was doing exactly the same things, then it would take the same amount of CPU. The fact that its doing more work isnt your PC slowing down.

On what planet you're living on, we build new computers to get out of the CPU problems all the time.
Well, Im going to hazard the opinion that Ive got a little bit more experience of building new computers than you, and of computers in general. And on the planet Im living on, we dont build new computers because the old ones are somehow slowing down, we build them because the stuff we're doing with those computers, ie the software running on them, is increasing the amount of work the computer has to do.

Maybe I should sell my old computer to you then as it should run your DAW without any CPU problems.

deep'n'dark · Post by **deep'n'dark** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:41 pm

justin3am wrote: He's saying that your computer isn't getting slower. Newer versions of your software are using more resources to run. Anytime a new feature is added, regardless of the significance to you, it will require more processing power.

Of cource, but the point of my posting was, that sound-quality hasn't improved either. I did a benchmark test and Reason got slower by half without any reason. I know by experience, that even my NVIDIA graphic drivers have slowed down my PC - and I am very geeky to keep my PC healthy all the time. I'm not really a guy who messes with software to make it slow.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:44 pm

deep'n'dark wrote: Maybe I should sell my old computer to you then as it should run your DAW without any CPU problems.

No thanks, Im fine with my equally old computer which already runs my DAW without any CPU problems.

Maybe you should just stick to using stuff that's older, though, instead of expecting it to manager newer and newer stuff without problem. That strikes me as a more sensible option.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:58 pm

deep'n'dark wrote:
justin3am wrote: He's saying that your computer isn't getting slower. Newer versions of your software are using more resources to run. Anytime a new feature is added, regardless of the significance to you, it will require more processing power.
Of cource, but the point of my posting was, that sound-quality hasn't improved either.

When your reference point is the devices in Reason 9.5 that existed in Reason 5, that's almost certainly the case; PH probably havent made significant changes to any of them since they were introduced, probably never will. For newer devices, then like I said, its about features and complexity, and not all features are equal when it comes to audio quality, even though they take up more power; more flexible modulation capabilities for example.

On the other hand, those synths arent all that Reason is doing, either.

And on the gripping hand, the sound quality of all sorts of audio applications and plugins has improved, drastucally, especially where the modelling of real-world behaviours are involved.

Generalising like that from a limited example is not a good basis for an assertion.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:34 pm

The problem is the perspective, computers are not getting slower over time, it is the software which gets more demanding.

It is difficult to tell if that increased CPU demand is justified soundwise, Diva would be a prime example for me of when it is justified.

A DAW increasing CPU demand for no reason seems like waste of resources. I would avoid DAWs doing that.

Speculation about our computers getting slow for our DAWS