KVR Audio

EnochLight · Post by **EnochLight** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:20 pm

chk071 wrote:I still don't know why the oscillators sound so muffled in the lower octaves. As if you put a lowpass filter on them. Weird. Never noticed that in Diversion. Edit: Nope. Definitely not happenign in Diversion. In general, Thorn sounds a bit muffled. Is there anything on by default which could cause this?

Yep, noticed that too. I'm pretty sure it's due to the lack of being able to use your QWERTY keyboard arrows to preview patches. Hopefully Dmitry fixes it.

TrollFace.jpg

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:21 pm

chk071 wrote:I still don't know why the oscillators sound so muffled in the lower octaves. As if you put a lowpass filter on them. Weird. Never noticed that in Diversion. Edit: Nope. Definitely not happenign in Diversion. In general, Thorn sounds a bit muffled. Is there anything on by default which could cause this?

Try disabling Boost - does it still happen?

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:30 pm

chk071 wrote:I still don't know why the oscillators sound so muffled in the lower octaves. As if you put a lowpass filter on them. Weird. Never noticed that in Diversion. Edit: Nope. Definitely not happenign in Diversion. In general, Thorn sounds a bit muffled. Is there anything on by default which could cause this?

Some synths do that not sure why, the Prophet Rev 2 does it too.
But overall, i wouldn't say muffled, unless you're comparing it to Serum or something, which is just over the top brightness. I think the overall tone is perfect. Some people might be able to put their 'bass enhancing' plugins to good use, but i dig it, i think it's not too muddy in the low end, some synths are a bit too woofy, but Thorn is fairly constrained. I think it's good. Saves me from reaching for an EQ

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:53 pm

recursive one wrote:
chk071 wrote:I still don't know why the oscillators sound so muffled in the lower octaves. As if you put a lowpass filter on them. Weird. Never noticed that in Diversion. Edit: Nope. Definitely not happenign in Diversion. In general, Thorn sounds a bit muffled. Is there anything on by default which could cause this?
Try disabling Boost - does it still happen?

Yep. Tried to deactivate boost, limiter, filter, and also the harmonic filter. No effect. I also tried to set the song settings from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz, and changed the bit depth, but, no influence either. It's weird. It really sounds more and more muffled in the lower notes, -1 ocatve already sounds more muffled, and -2 and -3 even more so.

@ sqigls: I can't imagine that it's normal. Seems like a bug, especially as others don't seem to be bothered by it. I'll try Thorn in Cubase also, to verify if it hasn't anything to do with Studio One.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:58 pm

chk071 wrote:
recursive one wrote:
chk071 wrote:I still don't know why the oscillators sound so muffled in the lower octaves. As if you put a lowpass filter on them. Weird. Never noticed that in Diversion. Edit: Nope. Definitely not happenign in Diversion. In general, Thorn sounds a bit muffled. Is there anything on by default which could cause this?
Try disabling Boost - does it still happen?
Yep. Tried to deactivate boost, limiter, filter, and also the harmonic filter. No effect. I also tried to set the song settings from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz, and changed the bit depth, but, no influence either. It's weird. It really sounds more and more muffled in the lower notes, -1 ocatve already sounds more muffled, and -2 and -3 even more so.

You mean that when you are playing the lower notes, they have less high frequency content than they should?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:03 pm

It sounds like it. Sounds as if you apply a lowpass filter. ESPECIALLY compared with Diversion, it sounds really, really muffled. But also compared with any other soft synth i know.

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:05 pm

you mean like this?...
https://youtu.be/YDL20eMJWlk?t=6m30s

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:10 pm

chk071 wrote:It sounds like it. Sounds as if you apply a lowpass filter. ESPECIALLY compared with Diversion, it sounds really, really muffled. But also compared with any other soft synth i know.

Check if there is keytracking enabled somewhere - e.g. in the filter.

If not, maybe it has something to do with the nature of the additive synth engine

You may try assigning negative keytracking to shape or balance of the harmonic filter so that it would enhance the upper harmonics as the notes go lower.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:24 pm

No keytracking or anything activated. I just tried it in savhost too BTW, and, it is the same "issue" there. Slowly thinking it is normal. Could you guys, who also own Diversion, do a test comparison, and post here what you think about it? The lower notes are MUCH more "brilliant" for me in Diversion than they are in Thorn. In any other synth they are too.

recursive one wrote: If not, maybe it has something to do with the nature of the additive synth engine

I'm beginning to suspect the same, TBH.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:36 pm

recursive one wrote: If not, maybe it has something to do with the nature of the additive synth engine

How many partials does it use?

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:50 pm

pdxindy wrote:
recursive one wrote: If not, maybe it has something to do with the nature of the additive synth engine
How many partials does it use?

It appears that I'm confusing spectral synthesis (which is what Thorn actually does) with additive synthesis. Somehow since they both have something to do with FFT I thought that one of them is a form of another.

The manual says that the osicllators have 128 harmonics organized into 16 frames. Whatever it means

olepro · Post by **olepro** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:51 pm

Harmor does allso cut the top of the saw tooth in the very low octs, but i is very little.
Harmor has 516 partials as i remember.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:01 pm

I think we're getting closer to the truth.

Maybe Dmitry can comment on that at some point. I don't want to send him another mail, because i'm sure he's quite busy with other inquiries right now, and i already sent some bug reports/feature suggestions...

EnochLight · Post by **EnochLight** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:12 pm

Does anyone here use Dmitry's other synth - Diversion? Or his effect module Tantra? If his browsers in those two devices work the same as Thorn (in that, your QWERTY arrows can't be used to advance/reverse through the presets), then I'm guessing this is some sort of weird design choice he made and will likely not fix.

Anyone?

lnikj · Post by **lnikj** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:17 pm

Arrow keys don't work in either.

Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!