Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

[olepro]

IL Harmor seems to be able to do this too while i never owned this softsynth so far.

Sorry for you.
Harmor is out of this world. Additive synthesis on steroids !

[Stefken]

I saw a video yesterday and I'm impressed. Finally additive synth with conventional controls, often dervied from Serum. Unlike Loom and Harmor, which are both rather WTF to use.

The additive waveform editors in Serum and Icarus are very similar, same with some other synths like e.g. Linplug Spectral and PPG Wavegenerator. While they offer much less partials also the additive editors in e.g. Arturia Synclavier V, Ableton Operator and Tone2 Nemesis are comparable.
Waldorf Nave has a 3D display where you coudl edit teh partials of multipleor all all waveforms in a wavetable at the same time opposing to editing a single waveforms like in the other synths mentioned.

Complex additive synths like e.g. that in Alchemy (before it was sold to Apple), Cameleon 5000 (discontinued) and others (AFAIK also the hardware Kawai K5000) had an amp envelope for each of the partials whichh allowed changing the timbre er the time. Of course using a filter for this is more simple but at least in theory a complex additive synth does not need a filter.
Since Alchemy (at least for Windows), Cameleon 5000 and recently also DiscoDSP Vertigo seem to have been discontinued and/or "disppeared" i think there would be need for a complex additve synth again.
With Alchemy and Cameleon 5000 i remember that they offered importing samples to a complex additive engine with envelopes for each partial. IL Harmor seems to be able to do this too while i never owned this softsynth so far.
In hardware synths only the Kawai K5000 seemed to be close to such a complex additive engine while it also added filters and sample playback. Something like a K5000 as software would be great while Alchemy might have been close somehow (still sad that it is only available for OSX now and there only for Logic).

Compared to the bunch of other wavetable synth i own (including e.g. Icaruzs, Seum, Wavegenerator and the Waldorf plugins) the only really special feature in Thorn seems to be the harmonic filter which as i alraedy mentioened reminds me of the drawale filter in Spectral or teh FFT filter in Avenger.
Anyway a synth with a huge amount of filter modes like e.g. Icarus (which is also avaiable as a dual multimode filter) is able to come close to such a harmonic filter.

Besides that certain changes to the spectrum over time is exactly what wavetable synthesis is made for and both Icarus and Serum offer up to 256 waveforms in a wavetable opposing to the 16 available in Thorn (if i didn't miss that it is possible to add more there...). The Morph modes in Icarus also offer a bunch of options to change the spectrum over the time (if you modulate the Morph mode amount with a modulator).

Personally after having checked the demo i had decided that based on the bunch of other wavetable synths i alraedy own (inckluding 2 hardware synths) i currently do not really have a need for buying Thorn which might change in the future.

FWIW i had owned Diversion in the past (AFAIK shortly after it was released) and sold it it later due to having rarely used it even if the synth engine was quite powerful.

I think what set Thorn apart is the ease of use and the harmonic filter. I never liked working in Serum. Icarus I like a lot better, with also a warmer vibe and excellent filters. Yet, UI-wise a few very odd choices, which hamper the workflow.

The workflow in Thorn is fast and simple. I would prefer (possibly as an option in the menu) a bit more visualisation. No waveforms jumping up and down for me but I would at least like to see the effect of the routing (see the knobs move). I would welcome to see a visualisation of the filter and the lfo moving but I can do without.

The unique thing about Thorn seems to be the harmonic filter. Which you can couple with an envelope and lfo for harmonic movement. If I were the developer, I would develop that feature more and enabled more extensive routing possibilities as with the classic filter. That is possibility to determine how/whether a oscillator is routed to the harmonic filter or bypasses the filter. Or even better, provide a DUAL harmonic filter.

The classic filters (LP, HP, BP) in Thorn are not very interesting to me (apart from the drive). I find the filters in e.g. Icarus much more interesting.

The amount of waveforms in the wavetable might be a limitation. Then again, I find that the 256 possible waves in Serum gave rise to some lazy sounddesigning with people just scanning through some noisy wavetables.

[auricle]

Image Line's Morphine is often overlooked but it is a powerful additive synth that allows imported sample resynthesis:

https://www.image-line.com/plugins/Synths/Morphine/

[ENV1]

The amount of waveforms in the wavetable might be a limitation. Then again, I find that the 256 possible waves in Serum gave rise to some lazy sounddesigning with people just scanning through some noisy wavetables.

Yeah, 16 are way too few and 256 are way too many.

The usability-sweetspot in my opinion is 64, a good example would be PPG wave 2.2 / 2.3

[Vortifex]

..

[recursive one]

From my experience with the demo, Thron tends to sound pretty harsh if you start with "naked" oscillators. Therefore I start making sounds with setting up the harmonic filter to dampen some of the high frequencies.

Just for fun I tried to copy the hypersaw (9x saw) from Spire. Using the harmonic filter, Voxengo Span and my own ears I managed to do this more or less close.

[] Peter:H []

Icarus I like a lot better, with also a warmer vibe and excellent filters. Yet, UI-wise a few very odd choices, which hamper the workflow.

Sorry, for a short OT intermission:
Icarus is going to get an hugh update to Version 1.5 which is already in beta phase.
As far as I got it from the change log there should be improvements on the GUI...
See https://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2517.0 for the list of changes.

[Sound Author]

Icarus I like a lot better, with also a warmer vibe and excellent filters. Yet, UI-wise a few very odd choices, which hamper the workflow.

Sorry, for a short OT intermission:
Icarus is going to get an hugh update to Version 1.5 which is already in beta phase.
As far as I got it from the change log there should be improvements on the GUI...
See https://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2517.0 for the list of changes.

Icarus is great, but yeah, that GUI is a dealbreaker for me. Not sure I want "improvements" on the GUI, but rather a completely different GUI altogether. It physically hurts to look at. But that's just me.

[Vortifex]

..

[shonky]

The amount of waveforms in the wavetable might be a limitation. Then again, I find that the 256 possible waves in Serum gave rise to some lazy sounddesigning with people just scanning through some noisy wavetables.

I always find it odd that a synth that has so much potential as Serum always gets used for that exact same thing, almost to the point where I thought that was all that it could do (I think it just basically replaced Massive as the dubstep/EDM wavetable bass synth).

I'd second comments on Harmor as a good additive synth, with two drawable filters, resynthesis, oscillator waveform import and endless modulation options it's certainly got a lot of scope, even if it's not exactly the most intuitive synth to familiarise yourself with (to say the least), especially considering the non-existent manual.

Am liking Thorn but agree that it could do with more than 12 wavetables.

[Daru925]

Harmor has a manual, at least in FL, press F1.
I like that Zebra/Zebralette have a resolution knob so harsh/smooth transitions are possible with only 16 waves/table.
I never understood why Serum is always compared to Massive. I often heard, get serum it will feel like using massive. Where are the parrallel filters, the third osc, the performers etc. The lfo window in serum feels tiny, sure it can mimic the performer but not quite imho. Make no mistake, it's a great synth and probably a better choice than massive if you were starting now, but doesn't feel at all like using massive.
If anything Spire is more similar to massive in terms of architecture and workflow than serum is.
/off topic

Thanks for the osc build!
The first note in the glitch sequencer won't glitch until one cycle btw.

[shonky]

Harmor has a manual, at least in FL, press F1.

This is true, but it's ridiculously brief for the complexity of the synth and, at the time, it was the first third party VST I'd actually bought so I didn't have much of the assumed knowledge that the manual takes for granted.

Anyway, as you say, offtopic

[wagtunes]

OT: Harmor's manual is a joke

BOT: Thorn rocks! Having a blast with this thing.

[spunkmuffin]

OT: Harmor's manual is a joke

How about this one...
http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=167682

[wagtunes]

OT: Harmor's manual is a joke

How about this one...
http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=167682

Thank you. That's a manual. Thanks to the guy who wrote it.