KVR Audio

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:51 pm

I guess this would qualify as everything else because I can't find a sub forum where this seems to fit. So here goes.

Hopefully, somebody can help me out here. This is my situation.

Church setup. We have the minister's microphone and 3 vocalist microphones that need to be hooked up. Currently, we have the one main input that's under the stage where we plug in the one mic. We do have an adapter that allows us to plug two mics into the adapter and then plug the adapter into the stage input. But we have no way of hooking up 4 mics.

Ideally, I'd like to have an XLR through box, similar to the MIDI through box that I have, that will allow 4 mics to be plugged into it. I have looked all over the Internet and Amazon but the only thing I can find is a through box where you can plug in two XLR mics. That still leaves me 2 mics short.

I'm thinking that I could plug two adapters (one into each XLR through) and that would give me 4 mics. But before I do that, does something exist that's actually a 4 into 1 XLR through? I can't find one anywhere so I'm guessing not. But I wanted to check with you guys first.

Of course any other suggestions are also welcome as long as it doesn't involve a large expense. I can go to $100 but more than that I don't know. It's for church.

Thanks guys.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:53 pm

A small mixer would be my choice ... this sort of thing: https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tmix_mix_80 ... 1509739037

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:58 pm

and wags this would be better in hardware so I'll move it there but leave a 'shadow topic' behind here

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:13 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:A small mixer would be my choice ... this sort of thing: https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tmix_mix_80 ... 1509739037

Ultimately though the mixer would have to go into the mic jack under the stage and I don't think that's going to be possible. We already have a mixer on the other end of the church. It's where the speakers and main mic cable are hooked into that runs under the stage to the jack. Another mixer isn't going to allow the 4 mics plugged into it to then be plugged into the mic input under the stage because the mixer itself isn't going to have an XLR out. Or will it? I've had many mixers in my day and don't recall one being able to act as a thru box. Perhaps I'm wrong.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:24 pm

wagtunes wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:A small mixer would be my choice ... this sort of thing: https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tmix_mix_80 ... 1509739037
Ultimately though the mixer would have to go into the mic jack under the stage and I don't think that's going to be possible. We already have a mixer on the other end of the church. It's where the speakers and main mic cable are hooked into that runs under the stage to the jack. Another mixer isn't going to allow the 4 mics plugged into it to then be plugged into the mic input under the stage because the mixer itself isn't going to have an XLR out. Or will it? I've had many mixers in my day and don't recall one being able to act as a thru box. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Hmm... doing submix mixing is really normal, like drum mixers fed to main mixers, orchestra pit mix fed to main etc... Many small factor mixers have XLN out... but you could just do a long 1/4” run (although probably want it shielded.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:26 pm

Both of my mixers have xlr outs ...

It would be no trouble to get a cable made to connect between whatever a mixers outs are and an XLR.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:31 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:A small mixer would be my choice ... this sort of thing: https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tmix_mix_80 ... 1509739037
Ultimately though the mixer would have to go into the mic jack under the stage and I don't think that's going to be possible. We already have a mixer on the other end of the church. It's where the speakers and main mic cable are hooked into that runs under the stage to the jack. Another mixer isn't going to allow the 4 mics plugged into it to then be plugged into the mic input under the stage because the mixer itself isn't going to have an XLR out. Or will it? I've had many mixers in my day and don't recall one being able to act as a thru box. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Hmm... doing submix mixing is really normal, like drum mixers fed to main mixers, orchestra pit mix fed to main etc... Many small factor mixers have XLN out... but you could just do a long 1/4” run (although probably want it shielded.

Okay, so if I get another mixer, what exactly do I have to do?

Here is the current setup.

Mixer in the back of the church. Speakers plugged into the speaker out jack. The one input jack is where were have the long mic cable that runs under the stage and into a input that's part of the stage bottom. I haven't actually looked at the circuitry behind it to see what's going on because it's all enclosed, but I'm assuming it's just a long mic cable.

Okay, into that cable, we plug the mic, which also has its own cable. Probably some kind of adapter at the end of that to make it fit into the wall. Right now, we have a splitter that goes into the wall that allows us to plug 2 mics into the wall.

What do I have to do after I plug the 4 mics into the mixer to make it so that I can plug the mixer into the mic jack in the wall so that all 4 mics are heard? Obviously, I need a mixer with at least 4 inputs.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:34 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Both of my mixers have xlr outs ...
It would be no trouble to get a cable made to connect between whatever a mixers outs are and an XLR.

Okay, so then all I have to do is get the mixer, plug the 4 mics into the mixer and then get a cable from the XLR out on the mixer (make sure the mixer I get has XLR outs) and then plug THAT cable into the XLR in that's under the stage? Correct?

Oh, the jack that's under the stage is the one that has the 3 holes in it. So I need a cable going from the mixer that has the 3 prongs.

Sorry, but hardware has always been a royal pain for me which is why I got rid of my hardware studio and went to PC recording.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:40 pm

Sorry, boarding a plane. Yes, you “should” be able to extend the XLR cable under the floor and connect it to a sub out or main out on the board. However, length of run, power of either mixer, impedance of the mics and pres and a ton of other factors (lol, you know hardware PITA stuff) will determine if it will work as well as you want.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:42 pm

And by the way, just to purge my desire to be a pedantic dickhead ... 4 into 1 is pretty much the use case definition of a mixer. 1 into 4 is a distributor.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:46 pm

wagtunes wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Both of my mixers have xlr outs ...
It would be no trouble to get a cable made to connect between whatever a mixers outs are and an XLR.
Okay, so then all I have to do is get the mixer, plug the 4 mics into the mixer and then get a cable from the XLR out on the mixer (make sure the mixer I get has XLR outs) and then plug THAT cable into the XLR in that's under the stage? Correct?

Oh, the jack that's under the stage is the one that has the 3 holes in it. So I need a cable going from the mixer that has the 3 prongs.

Sorry, but hardware has always been a royal pain for me which is why I got rid of my hardware studio and went to PC recording.

All you need is a cable between the new mixer and the XLR in on your installed cable. Whether the mixer has 1/4 inch, RCA or XLR outs is irrelevant. The right cable will be available, or simple to have made.

Alternatively, put the new 4 channel mixer at the back of the building and rig up 3 more long run mix cables. Or ... Have the mixer onstage, connect it to the speakers, and connect the mics using short, onstage cables (?).

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:46 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:Sorry, boarding a plane. Yes, you “should” be able to extend the XLR cable under the floor and connect it to a sub out or main out on the board. However, length of run, power of either mixer, impedance of the mics and pres and a ton of other factors (lol, you know hardware PITA stuff) will determine if it will work as well as you want.

Wonderful. So I can set this all up and it might not produce sound loud enough to be heard.

Why can't somebody make a 4 into 1 thru box? LOL

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:51 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Both of my mixers have xlr outs ...
It would be no trouble to get a cable made to connect between whatever a mixers outs are and an XLR.
Okay, so then all I have to do is get the mixer, plug the 4 mics into the mixer and then get a cable from the XLR out on the mixer (make sure the mixer I get has XLR outs) and then plug THAT cable into the XLR in that's under the stage? Correct?

Oh, the jack that's under the stage is the one that has the 3 holes in it. So I need a cable going from the mixer that has the 3 prongs.

Sorry, but hardware has always been a royal pain for me which is why I got rid of my hardware studio and went to PC recording.
All you need is a cable between the new mixer and the XLR in on your installed cable. Whether the mixer has 1/4 inch, RCA or XLR outs is irrelevant. The right cable will be available, or simple to have made.

Alternatively, put the new 4 channel mixer at the back of the building and rig up 3 more long run mix cables. Or ... Have the mixer onstage, connect it to the speakers, and connect the mics using short, onstage cables (?).

Okay, I don't know how much of our current setup can be modified. Like I said, it appears that the mic in cable that runs to the mixer in the back if the church is cemented into the stage. I don't think it comes out. So whatever we do, it has to be able to connect into that cable. That's the main point for plugging in mics. Everything has to go into IT.

The speakers are built into the church walls. The speaker cables run from the back of the church to the speakers and, as far as I know, there is no easy way to get to the speakers. Yeah, I know, if those cables go bad I have no idea how we're fixing the problem.

In short, our setup is screwy and I would have never done things this way, but it is what it is.

So I need to be able to plug, whatever, into that jack input that's built into the stage.

Sunday, I will speak to Bill and see if I can't get a better handle on exactly how all this is glued together. But I'm pretty sure I'm close enough.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:54 pm

wagtunes wrote: Why can't somebody make a 4 into 1 thru box? LOL

HEHEHE ... as I said .. that’s what a mixer is, they make zillions. You just need to find one that works for your setup.

EDIT: It can’t be a thru box (and the reasons why will depend on the type of mic, obviously a ribbon or other powered mic will even have more issues), but lets say you just have good ol’ SM57s. You still need to drop the output of all 4 to summed unity in order to feed a single channel on the downstream board.

imrae · Post by **imrae** » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:55 pm

Search for "xlr microphone mixer" and hopefully you'll have more luck. There are also small 10-channel mixers with 4 XLRs and a few stereo pairs. Usually the compact ones will have a balanced TRS jack output, which is easily adapted to XLR with a suitable cable. You can boost the signal level with the mixer and its pre-amps so I don't think you'll need to worry about signal loss; more likely you need to avoid clipping the inputs of the main mixer!

Need 4 Into 1 Microphone Box