frei:raum - Magic EQ?

[Sampleconstruct]

After a few days with frei:raum, testing it on all sorts of sources and also preparing samples with it, my verdict is positive. It's not per se a magic tool which will improve or fix your mixes in an instant, but it's a very useful tool for enhancing and de-mudding audio as well as an interesting sound design tool, especially when it comes to changing the balance of tonal and inharmonic content, which some other plug-ings also cover (e.g. the tonal-transient-noise mix algorithm in Falcon/IRCAM Stretch, the deconstruction feature in RX Advanced and other plug-ins). Let's see what version 2 brings to the table.

[yellowmix]

I did a phase inversion with frei:reum and it summed to zero.

You're wrong as it seems, it doesn't null. I just checked it with a white noise sample and some grooves. On my flux analyser I can see always something going on ...

I tried it again and yes, I'm getting something down there. I was using Waves PAZ and it only goes down to -80. Sorry about that. Gonna blacklist those plugins, they're useless.

The manual says their bypass bypasses "all processing" but this clearly is not the case. It says the bypass is offered to address possible sync issues using DAW-native bypass, so not sure if it has anything to do with that. I mean, if it's off by one sample then it will not null. I'll file a support request and refer them to your post.

[Sampleconstruct]

Plug-In delay compensation in Logic X doesn't work, probably due to the fact that when PDC exceeds a certain time limit, it won't work in Logic X (like e.g. with the highest quality linear phase mode in Fabfilter ProQ 2 which also doesn't work in Logic X).

[dreamvoid]

I tried it again and yes, I'm getting something down there. I was using Waves PAZ and it only goes down to -80. Sorry about that. Gonna blacklist those plugins, they're useless.

The manual says their bypass bypasses "all processing" but this clearly is not the case. It says the bypass is offered to address possible sync issues using DAW-native bypass, so not sure if it has anything to do with that. I mean, if it's off by one sample then it will not null. I'll file a support request and refer them to your post.

Thank you. Here is a GIF which shows the following: groove is loop running all the time. No frei:raum, no movement in the Insight spectrum analyzer. As soon frei:raum is instantiated with the default setting you see the difference moving in the spectrum ...

[Caine123]

I tried it again and yes, I'm getting something down there. I was using Waves PAZ and it only goes down to -80. Sorry about that. Gonna blacklist those plugins, they're useless.

The manual says their bypass bypasses "all processing" but this clearly is not the case. It says the bypass is offered to address possible sync issues using DAW-native bypass, so not sure if it has anything to do with that. I mean, if it's off by one sample then it will not null. I'll file a support request and refer them to your post.

Thank you. Here is a GIF which shows the following: groove is loop running all the time. No frei:raum, no movement in the Insight spectrum analyzer. As soon frei:raum is instantiated with the default setting you see the difference moving in the spectrum ...

Did u send them a mail about this?
It would be inzeresting to read what they reply.
Cause it shouldnt affect a signal even on flat otherwise it is bad.

[Fleer]

Here's a great Russian choir vid from Sampleconstruct:

[dreamvoid]

Did u send them a mail about this?
It would be inzeresting to read what they reply.
Cause it shouldnt affect a signal even on flat otherwise it is bad.

No, what for? Personally I'm done with frei:raum so far, but will watch the developments of course. For me it was in the end just important to find out if it was just my imagination or not, the default setting altering the sound or not - it was a subtle difference. I came to the point to listen to the default setting because I found the processing of frei:raum somewhat unpleasant and the more I dialed in the more it lost clarity and punch. My friend, who bought frei:raum full price hoping for a specific solution under time pressure, confirmed my findings. She has a high end monitoring setup and described the effect like "grey veil" making the sound "faint". In the end she never has processed anything with frei:raum (she records and mix classical music mostly). We're both no beginners.

[plexuss]

[mac4d]

Quoted from the manual...

"Based on different analysis methods, a smart filter is able to recognize spectral deficiencies in the audio signal (broad- and narrowband) and can compensate them with an accurate and complex filter structure."

"To use a smart filter, frei:raum has to learn the adaptive filter curve"

Here's my question(s). When dragging the thumb up, the learned filter curve is applied as learned, frequencies it thinks should be cut are cut, what it thinks should be boosted are boosted. But when dragging thumb down, the filter curve looks inverted. That's what I'm seeing in the youtube vids I've seen. What am I missing or not getting about dragging down? Why would one want to cut frequencies the curve recommends boosting and boost what the curve recommends cutting? Just seems odd to me.

[plexuss]

Quoted from the manual...

"Based on different analysis methods, a smart filter is able to recognize spectral deficiencies in the audio signal (broad- and narrowband) and can compensate them with an accurate and complex filter structure."

"To use a smart filter, frei:raum has to learn the adaptive filter curve"

Here's my question(s). When dragging the thumb up, the learned filter curve is applied as learned, frequencies it thinks should be cut are cut, what it thinks should be boosted are boosted. But when dragging thumb down, the filter curve looks inverted. That's what I'm seeing in the youtube vids I've seen. What am I missing or not getting about dragging down? Why would one want to cut frequencies the curve recommends boosting and boost what the curve recommends cutting? Just seems odd to me.

Yes it's a bit odd, but it utilized the bipolar UI and allows you to experiement. Most of time you may want to apply the recommended cuts and boosts and so you drag up. the more up you go the more the recommended curve is applied. but its useful to drag down and here what the effect is because in some cases you may want the inverse for sound design purposes.

One possible use for the inverted curve is to apply it to another track to help clear the bands for the track the snapshot was taken. However I haven't tried to drag the plugin between tracks to see if it remember the complex filtering it came up with.

I bring this up because on Logic Pro there is definitely an issue with frei:raum that to most wont be but to be is a pretty serious bug. I am going to call it a bug because it should be implemented: when swtiching project sample rates, frei:raum forgets the complext filtering. Saving it as an AU preset doesn't save the complex filter. I often work in 44.1k for mixing and then convert to 96k for the render so I have a 96/24 master but frei:raum prevents this workflow. This to me is a serious issue.

[bmanic]

I don't know what to think about this thing.. it's weird. Even when completely bypassed, something seems to be happening to the audio. Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing.. but something definitely happens. It's almost as if everything is a bit compressed and loses a bit of focus.

Is the signal perhaps being split into some kind of FFT chunks or something? I don't know.. it's very similar feeling to what happens when you insert an instance of Plugin Alliance DSM v2. Something "happens" and the audio isn't feeling/sounding the same any more.

Not sure I like the intelligent filtering either.. it seems to be pretty hit and miss. For resonance control and taming I think Soothe is a way better option. Will have to digest on this a bit. At 60$ it's slightly tempting.. at full retail, that's just nuts and definitely not worth it at all.

[plexuss]

Will have to digest on this a bit. At 60$ it's slightly tempting.. at full retail, that's just nuts and definitely not worth it at all.

... to you.

Yes I hear some processing going on when on full bypass as well. It's also not something you can use on everything - for example I didn't find it useful on the vocals on the folk track I am working on. I think it has some good sound design possibilities with more percussive synth sounds. I have yet to find a resononace fixing plugin that works on everything - they are all hit and miss. if you don't work with a lot of percussive sounds, acoustic or electronic, then frei:raum would not be of much use I dont think. It's nice they've offered it so cheap to us low-to-no revenue musicians and producers for that feel they can benefit from it.

[Fleer]

+1
For me, as an amateur in both meanings of the word, this plugin (frei:raum) is heaven sent. It allows me to explore and canvas aspects of sound I would never achieve on my own. As such, I'm interested in two kinds of plugins, looking back and forward at the same time: analog emulations on one hand and futuristic plugins like frei:raum or anything from FabFilter and Zynaptiq on the other hand. And since more and more analog emus are available, I also hope more and more of these future-oriented, magical plugins will come about to show me where music can boldly go. So thanks and kudos, Sonible, for giving us frei:raum.

[ghettosynth]

+1
For me, as an amateur in both meanings of the word, this plugin (frei:raum) is heaven sent. It allows me to explore and canvas aspects of sound I would never achieve on my own. As such, I'm interested in two kinds of plugins, looking back and forward at the same time: analog emulations on one hand and futuristic plugins like frei:raum or anything from FabFilter and Zynaptiq on the other hand. And since more and more analog emus are available, I also hope more and more of these future-oriented, magical plugins will come about to show me where music can boldly go. So thanks and kudos, Sonible, for giving us frei:raum.

Yes, and none of those (retro or futuristic) are perfect. It's always a balance of what it does vs what it's not supposed to do but does anyway.

[Fleer]

Indeed! And often at a high cpu cost. But I would never separate from my FabFilters, Zynaptiqs or Sonible frei:raum, for that matter, as the creativity they bring to my table is just so musical, I consider them instruments in their own right. That’s how high my praise reaches.