Mercuriall released Spark

[EvilDragon]

but is the virtual stompbox actually boosting the input to the amp?

Of course it is, that's why it's there for.

[jbraner]

OK - thanks Evil.

See, I've just had a realisation because of this. I love Tube Screamers, but I always use them with clean(ish) amps.
I could never figure out why guys used them in front of full on distorted amps. I use S-Gear amps a lot, and they sound great (rock distortion, not full on metal or "rectified" etc) just on their own. I just realised with the spark presets - what was happening with the stompboxes in front of the Marshalls - and it sounds great. Then I googled a little - and now I come here with a few questions

Don't worry - I'll stop with the questions soon.

Just one more though:
When you're using 2 mics, what sort of panning is in place? There's certainly no control over it, bu tis the LH one a little to the left and the RH one a little to the right. It doesn't really sound like they are. The "mono" and "stereo" setting is just for inputs right? I don't need to turn on "stereo" to seperate the mics? It doesn't sound like it...
I'm still deciding whether to disable the cabs and use Torpedo WOS or not. There's lots you can do with WOS - but it *is* convenient having everything in the one place

[EvilDragon]

When you use TS in front of a distorted amp, you usually don't use TS's Drive knob at all - you don't use it as a boost, but get its tone circuit to work, which tremendously tightens up the sound, which is perfect for those all-important chugga chuggas.

[alteregoxxx]

@alteregoxxx

So I tried to translate your very tech question to my colleagues with no luck Being a non-developer myself it's hard to grasp the essence of the question.

Could you, if possible, write in a bit easier language or form the question a bit differently/more precisely? I'll then try again :DD

Sure!

Amp Sim world signal chain:
Guitar-->D.I.-->Tube Amp Sim Input

Real world signal chain:
Guitar-->Real Tube amp input


Now:

D.I. input impedance = 1 MOhm @20Hz-20Khz, hence flat, constant, purely resistive in the audio band

Real Tube Amp input impedance= (tipically) 1 MOhm at 20Hz, decrease to 75 KOhm at 20Khz (I'm considering as example the JCM800 input stage) due to parasitic capacitance of vacuum tubes.

Guitar output impedance: high, Ohmic-Inductive-Capacitive

Coupling such an high output impedance voltage source (The guitar) to two systems having such a different input impedance (D.I. vs Real Tube amp) cause the signal that reaches the input stages, Amp sim vs Real amp, to be identical up to about 2Khz, but different from 2Khz to 20 Khz, up to about 3-4 dB.

Hope now is more clear, otherwise I can create and send you some LTSpice graphs

The answer I got - "We are modeling internal resistance of a guitar pickup and its interaction with the tube's input stage." Hope it makes sense =)

Thanks for the feedback! For sure it makes sense "as general principle".
But, you said: "We are modeling internal resistance of a guitar pickup and its interaction with the tube's input stage."
But my question was exactly on this aspect: Wich pickup of which guitar?

I mean, how can you know in advance what kind of pickup/guitar the user will use with Spark? Humbucker? single coil? You can for sure model something, but only if you know what you've to model!

However, as I've had a free day from my main job, I've investigated in more depth the phenomena of guitar coupling with DI vs Real tube, simulating the two coupling using models for variuos types of pickup (both, single coils and humbuckers); and I've to admit that, with both types of pickups, even if there are measurable differences in the voltage transfer curve between the two approaches (D.I. vs Real Tube input), differences are not so massive as I tought, in the sense that the transfer curve differences consist in 2-3 dB max and having the peak resonance at a slightly different frequency.

Nevertheless, guitar sims live of nuances, hence maybe could be a good idea to offer a list of pickup models the user can chose from, to perfect the correction.

[jbraner]

OK - just one more observation.

First of all - I really like this plugin. It really does have balls, and it sounds great

Using presets though, in SONAR anyway, is useless. I don't know if it's a SONAR issue, or Spark, or both - but when scrolling through presets, sometimes Spark will just freak out and throw up some random settings. Then when you go back to a preset that you *know* you've saved and you know what it should be - it's set for something different.! Click to the next one, and then back again - and now it's right (!)

It's like it gets confused as to which preset is what, and sometimes just goes back to default (or random) settings.
If you click back and forth enough times, you *can* eventually get your preset to play correctly - but it's just not worth it.
It's easier to just pick an amp and dial in your sound

I'm going to use an external speaker emulator (Torpedo WOS), and I don't really use the FX much (I'll use VST ones later) so it's pretty easy to
- pick an amp
- pick input 1 or 2
- dial in the settings

It would be more of a PIA to dial in the speaker (and FX) settings each time though.

I usually like to have a few "go to" presets to use as starting points. Then I can flick through them to pick something that works - and tweak after that.
With Spark, I think it will be easier to just dial in a sound each time - as I can't trust what the presets are doing.

Don't get me wrong - it still very much worth it - because Spark *sounds* great


Is anyone else having problems like this with using presets?

[Barmaleus]

Just one more though:
When you're using 2 mics, what sort of panning is in place? There's certainly no control over it, bu tis the LH one a little to the left and the RH one a little to the right. It doesn't really sound like they are. The "mono" and "stereo" setting is just for inputs right? I don't need to turn on "stereo" to seperate the mics? It doesn't sound like it...
I'm still deciding whether to disable the cabs and use Torpedo WOS or not. There's lots you can do with WOS - but it *is* convenient having everything in the one place

This is not panning, but rather a mix between the microphones. I.e. how much of this or that microphone you want in the overall mix of the microphones.

[Barmaleus]

But my question was exactly on this aspect: Wich pickup of which guitar?

I mean, how can you know in advance what kind of pickup/guitar the user will use with Spark? Humbucker? single coil? You can for sure model something, but only if you know what you've to model!

However, as I've had a free day from my main job, I've investigated in more depth the phenomena of guitar coupling with DI vs Real tube, simulating the two coupling using models for variuos types of pickup (both, single coils and humbuckers); and I've to admit that, with both types of pickups, even if there are measurable differences in the voltage transfer curve between the two approaches (D.I. vs Real Tube input), differences are not so massive as I tought, in the sense that the transfer curve differences consist in 2-3 dB max and having the peak resonance at a slightly different frequency.

Nevertheless, guitar sims live of nuances, hence maybe could be a good idea to offer a list of pickup models the user can chose from, to perfect the correction.

I've no idea Will ask and report!

[Barmaleus]

OK - just one more observation.

First of all - I really like this plugin. It really does have balls, and it sounds great

Using presets though, in SONAR anyway, is useless. I don't know if it's a SONAR issue, or Spark, or both - but when scrolling through presets, sometimes Spark will just freak out and throw up some random settings. Then when you go back to a preset that you *know* you've saved and you know what it should be - it's set for something different.! Click to the next one, and then back again - and now it's right (!)

It's like it gets confused as to which preset is what, and sometimes just goes back to default (or random) settings.
If you click back and forth enough times, you *can* eventually get your preset to play correctly - but it's just not worth it.
It's easier to just pick an amp and dial in your sound

I'm going to use an external speaker emulator (Torpedo WOS), and I don't really use the FX much (I'll use VST ones later) so it's pretty easy to
- pick an amp
- pick input 1 or 2
- dial in the settings

It would be more of a PIA to dial in the speaker (and FX) settings each time though.

I usually like to have a few "go to" presets to use as starting points. Then I can flick through them to pick something that works - and tweak after that.
With Spark, I think it will be easier to just dial in a sound each time - as I can't trust what the presets are doing.

Don't get me wrong - it still very much worth it - because Spark *sounds* great


Is anyone else having problems like this with using presets?

Hmm, have not heard about this issue before. Or, at least, no one reported. I'll install Sonar and see how it behaves.
Just for sake of testing, if you have time - please install Reaper (www.reaper.fm) and see if presets will behave similarly? Thank you!

Btw, which Sonar version are you running?

[jbraner]

Hi B,
SONAR Platinum here - I've raised this with support too

[jbraner]

Just one more though:
When you're using 2 mics, what sort of panning is in place? There's certainly no control over it, bu tis the LH one a little to the left and the RH one a little to the right. It doesn't really sound like they are. The "mono" and "stereo" setting is just for inputs right? I don't need to turn on "stereo" to seperate the mics? It doesn't sound like it...
I'm still deciding whether to disable the cabs and use Torpedo WOS or not. There's lots you can do with WOS - but it *is* convenient having everything in the one place

This is not panning, but rather a mix between the microphones. I.e. how much of this or that microphone you want in the overall mix of the microphones.

OK thanks - that's what I thought.

[guitarjon]

Here is a video demonstration of Spark and UH530 in 9 styles:

[Barmaleus]

But my question was exactly on this aspect: Wich pickup of which guitar?

So I was told - we model a reactive resistance of a "middle-ground" pickup with 10kOm. Modeling different pickups would be a huge job. We simply don't have people or funds for that right now.

[alteregoxxx]

But my question was exactly on this aspect: Wich pickup of which guitar?

So I was told - we model a reactive resistance of a "middle-ground" pickup with 10kOm. Modeling different pickups would be a huge job. We simply don't have people or funds for that right now.

Oooook, I see! Thanks for the feedback!

Again, Spark is actually, and by far, the most realistic amp sim on the market. Bravi!

[Barmaleus]

Thank you sir! =)

[Barmaleus]

Hi B,
SONAR Platinum here - I've raised this with support too

So I've finally managed to try with Sonar Platinum. Used Sonar's built in preset manager. Created and saved 2 presets. Switched between them and also other presets and my custom ones were always correct.

I used Spark 1.1/VST 64bit/ Windows 10.

Not sure at the moment how to reproduce.