When can we stop making 32-bit plugins?

[Googly Smythe]

64bit only. I dont use freeware. I can afford quality synths.

Soundtoys LittlePlate is free right now. Are you seriously not going to use it out of ''pride''.

This is a loose interpretation of "free".
Free means not having to give anything whatsoever in return.
We all know about email address harvesting for marketing (and worse) purposes.
This is why a Google etc email account is not "free". And why Soundtoys freebies are not "free".
And just because a guy doesn't want PACE on his machine doing God knows what in the background, doesn't make him an idiot.
Slate (I think, or is it PACE?) installs Bonjour, which I immediately uninstall. Because having any kind of Apple software on my pc gives me the creeps. We all have our little idiosyncrasies. And sticking to 32-bit is another. I couldn't give a toss who uses what, or why. It's of interest only to developers. As here.

[ghettosynth]

So at this point 65% have voted "Yes I've completely moved on to 64 bit". I don't know if that's the result the OP expected but there you have it. Run the same Poll next year and I bet it's closer to 80%.

That's what I wanted to find out. 80% isn't enough for me to drop it, but at this rate maybe around the year 2020 will be about the right time.

It's a slop, it's not going to give you accurate numbers. I suspect that the real numbers are already closer to 80%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

The group of people wanting to feverishly express their need for 32 bit are going to self select themselves into this poll. It's almost certain that they are over-represented in the data.

[A_SN]

The group of people wanting to feverishly express their need for 32 bit are going to self select themselves into this poll. It's almost certain that they are over-represented in the data.

Very good point, I guess nothing beats real usage stats! But people also self-select when sending me emails to complain about the lack of this or that, so if you want to measure the vocality of opposition to something then asking people works too.

Pretty sure that for standalone apps (like Photosounder, no plugins or anything) I can drop 32-bit already.

[ZeePok]

< withdrawn, only sadness remains >

[ghettosynth]

The group of people wanting to feverishly express their need for 32 bit are going to self select themselves into this poll. It's almost certain that they are over-represented in the data.

Very good point, I guess nothing beats real usage stats! But people also self-select when sending me emails to complain about the lack of this or that, so if you want to measure the vocality of opposition to something then asking people works too.

Sure, but, if you want to know what the market for 32 bit plugins is, you're going to get biased data by sampling this way. It may or may not be the case that the self-selection bias for your expressed case of interest is the same as a slop here. I think that whomever raised the point earlier about customers has a valid point. Do you really care about the layzers of the world just because they may send you an email or two, they're not customers.

[wagtunes]

Nice to not have been part of the train wreck for once. And as much as I hate to say this, both sides have their good points.

In spite of the general feeling around KVR, there are people out in the world who still make music with instruments dating hundreds of years. Or maybe not too many of us have heard a good jazz trio play recently.

If I had a 32 bit machine, I'd still be able to make music that sounds as good as the music I make now, regardless of how horrible most people think my music is.

However, my broadway style soundtrack would not have been able to have been made at its currently quality of sound because the authentic sounding orchestral libraries that I needed to do it only came in 64 bit. In fact, it was the deciding factor for why I went 64 bit to begin with, to get good quality orchestral libraries. Sure, I could have gone 32 bit and settled for inferior sounding orchestral libraries (and I'm sorry folks but as a classically trained musician, there is a HUGE difference in sound) but the end result would not have sounded as good. And Layzer can stand on his head and whistle Dixie until the cows come home but it won't change that fact. There are ZERO convincing 32 bit orchestral libraries out there. The stuff in Komplete is pure horse shit.

So yes, while you can make music with 32 bit until the world ends, you are going to be limited with what you can do in certain applications.

And of course, yes, there is the RAM issue. There is no way I could create some of the projects I create now because of their size.

In short, I am glad I decided to go 64 bit. Yes, there are a lot of 32 bit only plugs that I can't use because they're unstable on my system but that's life. You choose what's more important to you and then you live with your decision.

I don't have a problem with Layzer using 32 bit plugs. What I have a problem with is him calling everybody an idiot who doesn't. Conversely, I also have a problem with some of the 64 bit snobs we have here who behave just as badly as he does.

Use what you want and let the rest of us have some peace around here.

Because the snobbery and nastiness of this place is getting real old guys.

[Aloysius]

64bit only. I dont use freeware. I can afford quality synths.

Soundtoys LittlePlate is free right now. Are you seriously not going to use it out of ''pride''.

This is a loose interpretation of "free".
Free means not having to give anything whatsoever in return.
We all know about email address harvesting for marketing (and worse) purposes.
This is why a Google etc email account is not "free". And why Soundtoys freebies are not "free".
And just because a guy doesn't want PACE on his machine doing God knows what in the background, doesn't make him an idiot.
Slate (I think, or is it PACE?) installs Bonjour, which I immediately uninstall. Because having any kind of Apple software on my pc gives me the creeps. We all have our little idiosyncrasies. And sticking to 32-bit is another. I couldn't give a toss who uses what, or why. It's of interest only to developers. As here.

Who said they didn't want PACE on their machine?
Who said a person who doesn't want PACE on their machine is a idiot?

Oh yes, unless I'm mistaken, that would be yourself.

Good grief. What a 'loose' interpretation of my post.

[Synthman2000]

I think the fact is some software will never "catch up" to 64 bit. If there is no 64 bit it is abandonware as the term here goes...in 2017 it shows no further future is seen for the plug in by the developer. If you rely on that 32 bit software then that is fine I understand your position and reluctance to move on.

I am not of the mindset to lean on the bleeding edge of technology (more of a when it's working it's working kind of guy) here and I thought I was slow to go 64 bit and now am very pleased I bothered to. Along with 64 bit Cubase 9 and 64 bit throughout plug ins my system is 10 x more stable than it used to be. No turning back and only glad I switched.

Anything 32 bit I had revered has been long since forgotten or successfully replaced. The only possible new 32 bit only plug in I had interest in is Viper but I won't distrupt stability for a plug in which emulates a synth I already own. If it was 64 bit I would have bought it without even thinking about it.

The moment to switch is driven by your hardware, software and musical goals and that will differ for every individual.

[ghettosynth]

I don't have a problem with Layzer using 32 bit plugs.

You might be reading more into my response than is there. My point had nothing to do with his attitude but everything to do with the fact that, by his own admission, he is not a customer. Consequently, his opinion to a vendor is largely immaterial.

I also still use some 32 bit plugins, but, I'm not a customer for 32 bit plugins. If you want to understand the market these nuances matter. The last 32 bit only plugin that I purchased was dreamverb, and TBH, I'd as soon have my three bucks back so I could buy a coffee with it.

Of the four DAWs that I use regularly, only one still supports 32 bit without a bridge and only Reaper includes a bridge.

Yes, there are still customers for 32 bit, but that market is dwindling and is probably smaller than the poll here indicates.

[Mutant]

I use a proper* host that seamlessly wraps plugins coded for both 32 and 64 bits.
So i totally don't care about this.




*That host is REAPER of course.

[Nielzie]

I use a proper* host that seamlessly wraps plugins coded for both 32 and 64 bits.
So i totally don't care about this.




*That host is REAPER of course.

Same here

[Synthman2000]

Yeah, Cubase is not a proper host. Steinberg only invented linear timeline MIDI sequencing and VST/VSTi.

[sin night]

With the premise that I'm not a customer of your products, I think that I'd keep make 32 bit builds as long as a) running 32 bit software is supported and b) a significant number of customers need it and c) it has very little to no impact on actual development.

In my opinion, 32 bit is already a legacy technology and, while I'm fine on using it on legacy machines, I don't want to deal with it on newer machines. Maybe I'm more keen on switching because I'm a mac user (so I'm forced to stay more up-to-date). Strictly 32 bit only machines probably have quite old CPU (so there's a limit on what they can actually do with newer software with higher requirements), so I think the majority of 32 bit users nowadays have 64 bit capable machines and they just don't want to deal with 64 bit for compatibility reasons (they really need some older software - anyway I'm more keen on dropping that software than being left behind on older technology... worst case I keep a dedicated legacy machine and move on with my main one) or because they don't want to spend money.
Some major DAWs already dropped 32 bit support, so I expect that in no more than 2 or 3 years it will be also dropped by the majority of plugin developer (just give time for a pair of major releases of DAWS, so support for older versions is dropped). 32 bit is going to evaporate because major players (os and daw makers) can actually force it to disappear. When 32 bit customers will need to change their system, then they will be forced to switch (and it will be probably a quite hard migration).


Anyway, If I were you I'd probably send a survey to the customers, in order to have real numbers...


Also, give some months of advice to users when you'll decide to drop 32 bit support (or whatever), so they can plan and manage any related upgrade (in case they need it). This is something I really appreciate.

[fmr]

Steinberg only invented linear timeline MIDI sequencing and VST/VSTi.

Actually, I think that linear timeline MIDI sequencing can be credited to MOTU and Performer(1985).

[wagtunes]

I don't have a problem with Layzer using 32 bit plugs.

You might be reading more into my response than is there. My point had nothing to do with his attitude but everything to do with the fact that, by his own admission, he is not a customer. Consequently, his opinion to a vendor is largely immaterial.

I also still use some 32 bit plugins, but, I'm not a customer for 32 bit plugins. If you want to understand the market these nuances matter. The last 32 bit only plugin that I purchased was dreamverb, and TBH, I'd as soon have my three bucks back so I could buy a coffee with it.

Of the four DAWs that I use regularly, only one still supports 32 bit without a bridge and only Reaper includes a bridge.

Yes, there are still customers for 32 bit, but that market is dwindling and is probably smaller than the poll here indicates.

Understood. I was responding more to the attitude of people here than the market reality.