Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!
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- KVRist
- 455 posts since 3 Nov, 2009
Thanks guys for the suggestions!
It's a bit more complicated with the envelopes that modulate Osc Pos. There is a lag between converting harmonics into the output in respond to Osc Pos changes and modulations. Just because it can not be made in real-time. It takes around 10 msec to update the output to reflect the Osc Pos changes. And that makes impossible OscPos modulation with fast envelopes.
The blip occurs because envelopes always start from zero despite of the Attack settings, it's just a way envelopes work. So we get the following, upon starting a voice the envelope is zero, so the Pos is zero as well. And 10 msec it will be still zero. Then it jumps to sustain level. This 10 msec is enough to produce audible presence of the first frame of the table. A workaround here is to use MSEG in one-shot mode which doesn't start at zero, just pull the first point of the MSEG up and it will work.
However, this blip on envelopes is not a good thing, I'll be exploring if I can eliminate it, thank you Taron for spotting it!
As well, regarding the idle mode, there's unfortunately no denormal issues, otherwise it would has been fixed before the release. There're lots of things going in the background, including GUI stuff if it is opened. And the task is to move those things from idle mode to active one. That's really complicated and I'm not sure if eventually possible, but I'll be exploring it as well. It would be awesome to save CPU here for sure.
And finally, few subtle distortion models will come with the next update, ariston, it's on top of the list
It's a bit more complicated with the envelopes that modulate Osc Pos. There is a lag between converting harmonics into the output in respond to Osc Pos changes and modulations. Just because it can not be made in real-time. It takes around 10 msec to update the output to reflect the Osc Pos changes. And that makes impossible OscPos modulation with fast envelopes.
The blip occurs because envelopes always start from zero despite of the Attack settings, it's just a way envelopes work. So we get the following, upon starting a voice the envelope is zero, so the Pos is zero as well. And 10 msec it will be still zero. Then it jumps to sustain level. This 10 msec is enough to produce audible presence of the first frame of the table. A workaround here is to use MSEG in one-shot mode which doesn't start at zero, just pull the first point of the MSEG up and it will work.
However, this blip on envelopes is not a good thing, I'll be exploring if I can eliminate it, thank you Taron for spotting it!
As well, regarding the idle mode, there's unfortunately no denormal issues, otherwise it would has been fixed before the release. There're lots of things going in the background, including GUI stuff if it is opened. And the task is to move those things from idle mode to active one. That's really complicated and I'm not sure if eventually possible, but I'll be exploring it as well. It would be awesome to save CPU here for sure.
And finally, few subtle distortion models will come with the next update, ariston, it's on top of the list
- KVRAF
- 3879 posts since 28 Jun, 2009 from Wherever I lay my hat
That's really cool, thanks! You must be getting sick of all the praise right about now, but I have to say it again: thanks for being so responsive, and thanks for this great synth!sches wrote: And finally, few subtle distortion models will come with the next update, ariston, it's on top of the list
- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
TY Dmitry for the explanations and the MSEG workaround...sches wrote:Thanks guys for the suggestions!
A workaround here is to use MSEG in one-shot mode which doesn't start at zero, just pull the first point of the MSEG up and it will work.
However, this blip on envelopes is not a good thing, I'll be exploring if I can eliminate it, thank you Taron for spotting it!
It is pretty awesome synth...
I am blown away with what I can create in just one instance of this dammn Thorn in my side
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Great to hear back from you, thanks!sches wrote:Thanks guys for the suggestions!
It's a bit more complicated with the envelopes that modulate Osc Pos. There is a lag between converting harmonics into the output in respond to Osc Pos changes and modulations. Just because it can not be made in real-time. It takes around 10 msec to update the output to reflect the Osc Pos changes. And that makes impossible OscPos modulation with fast envelopes.
The blip occurs because envelopes always start from zero despite of the Attack settings, it's just a way envelopes work. So we get the following, upon starting a voice the envelope is zero, so the Pos is zero as well. And 10 msec it will be still zero. Then it jumps to sustain level. This 10 msec is enough to produce audible presence of the first frame of the table. A workaround here is to use MSEG in one-shot mode which doesn't start at zero, just pull the first point of the MSEG up and it will work.
However, this blip on envelopes is not a good thing, I'll be exploring if I can eliminate it, thank you Taron for spotting it!
As well, regarding the idle mode, there's unfortunately no denormal issues, otherwise it would has been fixed before the release. There're lots of things going in the background, including GUI stuff if it is opened. And the task is to move those things from idle mode to active one. That's really complicated and I'm not sure if eventually possible, but I'll be exploring it as well. It would be awesome to save CPU here for sure.
And finally, few subtle distortion models will come with the next update, ariston, it's on top of the list
I've done a few tests and realized that the only instance of Thorn that kept processing long after it went silent had a reverb on. Once I turned it off, everything idled just fine. If I were you, I would first investigate specifically the reverb situation!
As for the modulations, thank you for sharing all this information. Investigate how you initialize the process! Consider how the inverse modulation is able to start with the last cell (param:100% | modulation:-100%). If that is possible, it should be possible to start with the last cell, if parameter is 0% and modulation is 100%. I have no doubt you will solve this.
No matter what, I'm deeply enjoying what Thorn already has to give and can only imagine how these last little filings will turn it into a crown jewel!
- KVRAF
- 5678 posts since 25 Dec, 2004
There are at least 2 things really bothering me...
EVERY TIME i touch a control on Thorn (many of them anyway), it drops the MIDI note, so if i'm programming a subtle change, it can take so long... but i think it's more from the drop-down boxes maybe?... changing an oscillator type and so forth, just kills the audio, it's really killing the right-brain vibe, especially on PADS!! need to wait ages for the next MIDI note... makes it real hard to A/B stuff.
and NEED a proper mix control for the distortion module. The POST filters should NOT affect the dry sound. OR we need a low/hi PRE MIX filter that is exactly the same as the POST filters. It's really starting to bother me, SO OFTEN I get a great distortion sound, perfect tone, but it needs to be blended back maybe 50% with the dry, but it's not possible. Very frustrating.
I also feel the Harmonic Filter needs a MIX control too, PLEASE PLEASE with sugar on top!!
EVERY TIME i touch a control on Thorn (many of them anyway), it drops the MIDI note, so if i'm programming a subtle change, it can take so long... but i think it's more from the drop-down boxes maybe?... changing an oscillator type and so forth, just kills the audio, it's really killing the right-brain vibe, especially on PADS!! need to wait ages for the next MIDI note... makes it real hard to A/B stuff.
and NEED a proper mix control for the distortion module. The POST filters should NOT affect the dry sound. OR we need a low/hi PRE MIX filter that is exactly the same as the POST filters. It's really starting to bother me, SO OFTEN I get a great distortion sound, perfect tone, but it needs to be blended back maybe 50% with the dry, but it's not possible. Very frustrating.
I also feel the Harmonic Filter needs a MIX control too, PLEASE PLEASE with sugar on top!!
sketches... http://soundcloud.com/onesnzeros
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
That's interesting.. I am not getting this behaviour, I can turn OSCs on and off with no loss of audio, (unlike some other synths..) and modify the OSC spectrum in real time .. no loss of audiosqigls wrote:There are at least 2 things really bothering me...
EVERY TIME i touch a control on Thorn (many of them anyway), it drops the MIDI note, so if i'm programming a subtle change, it can take so long... but i think it's more from the drop-down boxes maybe?... changing an oscillator type and so forth, just kills the audio, it's really killing the right-brain vibe, especially on PADS!! need to wait ages for the next MIDI note... makes it real hard to A/B stuff.
and NEED a proper mix control for the distortion module. The POST filters should NOT affect the dry sound. OR we need a low/hi PRE MIX filter that is exactly the same as the POST filters. It's really starting to bother me, SO OFTEN I get a great distortion sound, perfect tone, but it needs to be blended back maybe 50% with the dry, but it's not possible. Very frustrating.
I also feel the Harmonic Filter needs a MIX control too, PLEASE PLEASE with sugar on top!!
No problem with drop downs either on long sustained notes/pads...
Win7 32 bit and Reaper
But definitely +1 +1 +1 etc for Harmonic Filter mix.. oh and maybe 2 busses like in Diversion would be ultra
- KVRAF
- 5678 posts since 25 Dec, 2004
OSCs on and off is no problem, spectrum no problem... it's selecting a new OSC shape etc...
AH! I just moved the VST3 out of the folder, the VST2 is fine. It's only the VST3 that exhibits this behaviour.
AH! I just moved the VST3 out of the folder, the VST2 is fine. It's only the VST3 that exhibits this behaviour.
sketches... http://soundcloud.com/onesnzeros
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
- KVRAF
- 3008 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia
Little question, Dmitry: When you load a wav file, are you actually closing the stream or leave it open? Seems like its left open. Would explain why it's then impossible to overwrite a wav file unless one closes the interface.
I'm just assuming that's what's happening. Maybe you'll just have a quick look?
I'm just assuming that's what's happening. Maybe you'll just have a quick look?
- KVRian
- 839 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Crestview, Florida
Here's my review: https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2017/1 ... rn-review/
I know I didn't cover every last detail, but I think I touched on the brightest spots
I know I didn't cover every last detail, but I think I touched on the brightest spots
- KVRAF
- 5678 posts since 25 Dec, 2004
can anyone else access the DS website? it's been down for a day or two.
sketches... http://soundcloud.com/onesnzeros
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
- KVRian
- 839 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Crestview, Florida
Yep. Down here too.
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- KVRist
- 221 posts since 21 Jul, 2015
Does anyone else experience "sticky" envelope controls?
It doesn't affect the sound, but feels awkward and makes finer adjustments a bit harder. I'm not talking about "ctrl+drag fine". Just regular drag.
It doesn't affect the sound, but feels awkward and makes finer adjustments a bit harder. I'm not talking about "ctrl+drag fine". Just regular drag.
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- KVRian
- 779 posts since 1 Dec, 2016
I do, but it's more of a response lag than stickiness if that makes sense.greedy.mf wrote:Does anyone else experience "sticky" envelope controls?
It doesn't affect the sound, but feels awkward and makes finer adjustments a bit harder. I'm not talking about "ctrl+drag fine". Just regular drag.
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression
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- KVRian
- 779 posts since 1 Dec, 2016
Hi Dmitry,
Great synth!
I think a few of us are experiencing osc and harmonic filter load issues when reopening a project. I heard mention of this issue, or one similar, with the vst3 installed, but I have only installed the 64bit dll. The wavetable names are preserved, but the default sawtooth or harmonic filter is loaded. Seems completely random, first 15 or so instances are fine (mainly drum patches), but pretty much everything after is hit or miss.
I'm using Reaper 5.51 64bit on Windows 7.
Thanks,
Mike
Great synth!
I think a few of us are experiencing osc and harmonic filter load issues when reopening a project. I heard mention of this issue, or one similar, with the vst3 installed, but I have only installed the 64bit dll. The wavetable names are preserved, but the default sawtooth or harmonic filter is loaded. Seems completely random, first 15 or so instances are fine (mainly drum patches), but pretty much everything after is hit or miss.
I'm using Reaper 5.51 64bit on Windows 7.
Thanks,
Mike
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression