Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

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tooneba
KVRian
1042 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Post Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:29 pm

You can try some DAW that integrated Melodyne like Studio One, Mixcraft, etc.

deastman
KVRAF
6739 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:42 pm

I've gradually moved most of my work into Ableton for the past few years, and only go back to Sonar when I'm doing something which is more linear, and also for scoring to video. I also have Bitwig, which came with my Seaboard and I upgraded to the full version. That doesn't have any video support, unfortunately.

Cubase looks pretty good and has good support for MPE, better than Bitwig actually. The one thing I would really miss is the ARA integration with Melodyne.

Studio One look pretty good and has ARA integration, but is terrible when it comes to working with MPE.

Reaper has good video support and great MPE support. I think their per-note editing of MPE data might actually be better than Cubase. I really hate the menus in Reaper, but it does have everything I really need. Lack of ARA support is a bummer, but I can always use Melodyne standalone like in the good old days.

So after some contemplation, I think I'm going to stick with Live for most of my work, and jump into Reaper when I need what it has to offer. The price is right, and I just don't feel that either Studio One or Cubase make a compelling enough case for me to spend the money. Studio One would actually be great if only they supported MPE, but that's a dealbreaker if I'm jumping into a new DAW right now.

I suppose I should check out Mixcraft as well. I just feel like they're such a small player that it might not be a good bet in the long term.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)

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pekbro
KVRAF
1963 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:27 am

Tracktion Waveform supports ARA and MPE as well. On sale for $49.50 currently.

gaf_thit
KVRian
508 posts since 28 Sep, 2012 from Norway

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:32 am

Not that I'm in the Sonar lifeboat, but regarding Mixcraft. It looks tempting to get the pro version at the current sale for 99usd. It includes among other things melodyne essential integrated in the daw and a range of good effects and tools. Gets great reviews across the line. Hmm...but not sure if I need it though, but why talk about need?

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pekbro
KVRAF
1963 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:49 am

I've never been especially motivated to give Mixcraft a try for some reason. And I am a DAW collector pretty much, having 10 of them. :shrug:

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ATS
KVRAF
5783 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:05 am

pekbro wrote:I've never been especially motivated to give Mixcraft a try for some reason. And I am a DAW collector pretty much, having 10 of them. :shrug:

Mixcraft is 1 of the 2 DAWS I own. I really like it but I much prefer Studio One.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls ~ Pablo Picasso

sl1200mk2
KVRist
97 posts since 6 Jun, 2003

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:06 am

EDIT: I saw someone posted the deal already... and you have to upload some proof of ownership.

If you all haven't seen this:

https://www.facebook.com/Steinberg/post ... cation=ufi

50% off Cube 9.5 to Cakewalk Professional and Platinum users coming next week. I wonder how they'll police this (or if they will)? I'm pretty happy with Studio One, but I'd definitely pick up a full Cubase Pro license for half off.

deastman
KVRAF
6739 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:44 am

pekbro wrote:Tracktion Waveform supports ARA and MPE as well. On sale for $49.50 currently.
That’s good to know. I also have a free license of that, courtesy of my Roli account, but I never bothered to install it. I’m not sure I trust the longevity of the platform for real work, but I’ll check it out.

Now with a deeper discount on Cubase coming, I’m thinking about that again vs. Reaper. The thing I actually find the most intriguing in Cubase is the chord track, although I don’t know how useful that would be in practice.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)

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satYatunes
KVRAF
1896 posts since 22 Aug, 2006 from Charlotte

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:28 am

deastman wrote: Now with a deeper discount on Cubase coming, I’m thinking about that again vs. Reaper. The thing I actually find the most intriguing in Cubase is the chord track, although I don’t know how useful that would be in practice.
I am also drawn towards it because of Chord track. I watched a few videos on it today. Some quick tips videos by Steinberg. It's certainly looks like a very handy feature to turn ideas into reality quickly or try different variations/progressions with a few mouse clicks. We have tools available like RapidComposer, Liquid Music, etc. however IMHO this looks like the best implementation of this feature. Good thing is you can see the progression on timeline. It sure looks easy in those videos.
satYatunes - Sound and Graphic Designer
UI/Skins for Melda Plugins, Hive, Dune 2, Patchwork, Tracktion and many more > Commercial and free Soundsets and VST Skins
Music - Soundcloud | Album - Memoirs of World Traveler

tunafish88
KVRist
35 posts since 27 Aug, 2016

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:37 pm

I picked it up... It stalled in the SW system.. I called the 800 number and the salesperson just asked me what I am crossing from, Studio One was my answer, and it went through... In retrospect I probably should have said Sonar.. lol !! Anyway, I'm struggling with Cubase... Lot's to learn.. I'm a slow learner....

I'm happy... $325 is a great price for Cubase 9.5 Pro..

xbitz
KVRAF
1977 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:01 pm

satYatunes wrote:
deastman wrote: Now with a deeper discount on Cubase coming, I’m thinking about that again vs. Reaper. The thing I actually find the most intriguing in Cubase is the chord track, although I don’t know how useful that would be in practice.
I am also drawn towards it because of Chord track. I watched a few videos on it today. Some quick tips videos by Steinberg. It's certainly looks like a very handy feature to turn ideas into reality quickly or try different variations/progressions with a few mouse clicks. We have tools available like RapidComposer, Liquid Music, etc. however IMHO this looks like the best implementation of this feature. Good thing is you can see the progression on timeline. It sure looks easy in those videos.
I don't stick myself to any DAW related feature, RapidComposer can do it and do it well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwk4SmzMRp4

needs only the lite version
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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satYatunes
KVRAF
1896 posts since 22 Aug, 2006 from Charlotte

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:36 am

^^^ I do have RapidComposer lite. It's plugin version is not well integrated with DAW.
Look at the first 5 mins of the video you have to posted. You will see what I am talking about. You have to do the routing, juggle thru multiple windows, etc. The default notes for chords are 16th notes. You have to edit it to make longer. I believe someone has already submitted an FR to change this. I have tried it with Reaper only. Believe me I have watched a lot of videos and tried many times but somehow it feels more of hindrance to the workflow. In the above video looks like the user is struggling whereas watch any of the Cubase chord track video, it looks so easy. RapidComposer is a very good tool but not great.
satYatunes - Sound and Graphic Designer
UI/Skins for Melda Plugins, Hive, Dune 2, Patchwork, Tracktion and many more > Commercial and free Soundsets and VST Skins
Music - Soundcloud | Album - Memoirs of World Traveler

Skorpius
KVRist
486 posts since 6 Mar, 2012

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:29 am

tooneba wrote:You can try some DAW that integrated Melodyne like Studio One, Mixcraft, etc.
Not to forget Samplitude Pro X3...

deastman
KVRAF
6739 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:29 am

^^^ And I have Liquid Music, which is awesome and I love. But it is hard to beat an understanding of the concept of chords being tightly integrated directly into the DAW timeline.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)

bungle
KVRAF
1560 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?

Post Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:55 am

skipscada wrote:
Astralv wrote:I was interested in waveform because of Composers Tools. I actually just bought it the other week.

WARNING: Bad Idea!

First of all, I had issues with activation. While everything activated the way it intended, I keep getting constant beeps and I cant tell why (when playing the Demo song).

My VSTs did not show correctly. When I opened it first time, it said, "These VSTs failed..." and there was list of like 40 plugins. All native Instruments plugins failed and almost everything else.

The tracks in it are on the right and use of real estate is just weird. I could never figure out where is what and where I am. I have about 20 years of DAW expedience, and i was like, "What in the world is this?"

I contacted tech support via e-mail and told them about all the problems and that I need refund unless they have easy fix. I never heard back from them. I contacted them again and never heard back from them.

Awful.
Activation: I've been a bit annoyed at activation myself, I get the feeling I need to activate Collective (the sampler) and DAW Essentials (Tracktion's own plugin suite) everytime there's an update to Waveform. But to be fair, as long as your login info is correctly set up, activation is a case of clicking one button (in DAW Essentials activating one plugin activates all). The beeps: Maybe you have an unactivated copy of Collective running? If so, open it, click "activate" top right and voila. Solution: make sure your login info is correct.

Plugins: My guess is that you're trying to get Waveform 64 bit to load 32 bit plugins (or vice versa), which won't work. No problems with NI plugins or indeed most plugins at all here, so again the problem is likely on your side. Solution: Verify that you're using the right versions. 64 with 64, 32 with 32 (I think - personally I only use Waveform 64 bit).

Support: They can be slow or fail to respond at all, but if you report a bug you will often find they've fixed it in their next update. But they could definitely improve when it comes to feedback/acknowledgment. Have you tried their forum here on KVR, though? ̶T̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ Edit: Apparently they haven't written anyting there for a month. Probably busy with a major release.


Don't give up yet! It's very fast, easy and powerful.
The use of the word often here in relation to Tracktions bug fixing is.....well lets just say its overly optomistic hahaha.
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

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