Thorn: Dmitry Sches' new synth!

[] Peter:H []

I had a bit of an weird idea

Add an "Invert Spectrum" Option to the "Harmonic Filter".

Use Case: I have two tracks/synths A and B in an arrangement/mix, where A should be dominant and B in background.

Step 1.) Grab an "characteristic" sample of the dominant sound A - this it's frequency fingerprint. To keep it in the foreground this frequencies should not be masked by the sound B. Therefore...
Step 2.) Import this sample into the Harmonic Filter of the background sound B of Thorn.
Step 3.) Invert the Spectrum in the Harmonic Filter and control the filter by key-follow

Result: The background Sound B will not use the frequencies of the dominant sound. The Frequencies are subtracted.

I know this is not "exact" as this Filter will be far more static than the dominant sound A could potentialy be....but anyway, it would be nice option and I think it's rather easy to implement. Let's see what Dimitry says, thumbs up or crap

] Peter:H [

[Taron]

First you should clarify a bit more, based on Thorn references, to avoid confusion, because it is hard to follow.
You have "two sounds"? You mean, you want to use two different sounds to create a complex harmonic filter? Or do you mean you have two oscillators active? Or do you mean you want two spectrum samples for the Harmonic Filter, rather than the 1 it currently has?

Then, invert the spectrum vertically around 0, or horizontally, flipping high frequency values and low frequency values around what ever would be the center?

Then, control what of the filter with key-follow?

I really wouldn't want to be Dmitry, but maybe he understands immediately what you mean?! ...curious.
Considering that the current engine requires 10ms to precalculate it's tables (?!), as "easy" as your suggestion sounds, it won't make that faster, nor will it solve the attack issue, which I think is most relevant at this point. No other fancy stuff would make Thorn jump that brutal hurdle.
I still think to solve the attack matter, a simple "exception" could at least allow a proper 0-attack solution, inverting the table procedure or something of that kind?
I'm telling you, with this roadblock out of the way, Thorn could create virtual wonders!

[] Peter:H []

First you should clarify a bit more, based on Thorn references, to avoid confusion, because it is hard to follow.
You have "two sounds"? You mean, you want to use two different sounds to create a complex harmonic filter? Or do you mean you have two oscillators active? Or do you mean you want two spectrum samples for the Harmonic Filter, rather than the 1 it currently has?

No, I just want to subtract the frequency fingerprint of Sound A from sound B. Thus sound B will only have frequencies which will not collide with sound/patch/track A in the mix.

Then, invert the spectrum vertically around 0, or horizontally, flipping high frequency values and low frequency values around what ever would be the center?

Invert in a sence that when a harmonic is in value range [0 -max] then inverted of x is max-x.
This means a "full" harmonic value in sound A will result in a 0 value for that harmonic in the filter.

Then, control what of the filter with key-follow?

harmonic filter

I really wouldn't want to be Dmitry, but maybe he understands immediately what you mean?! ...curious.
Considering that the current engine requires 10ms to precalculate it's tables (?!), as "easy" as your suggestion sounds, it won't make that faster, nor will it solve the attack issue, which I think is most

Sorry, but I don't care about the attack issue...I've learnt to deal with the inevitable. And Thorn has even without attack-0 enough to offer for me. The "invert" function is just a single option in the context menu of the harmonic filter like the already existing "boost" or "sharpen" functions.

relevant at this point. No other fancy stuff would make Thorn jump that brutal hurdle.
I still think to solve the attack matter, a simple "exception" could at least allow a proper 0-attack solution, inverting the table procedure or something of that kind?
I'm telling you, with this roadblock out of the way, Thorn could create virtual wonders!

It has already enough potential for me. And the "invert" context menu function is by far easier than fiddling with the core of the synth engine.

[Taron]

Must be nice not to care.
I do care about the synth, you know, and as an avid sound designer and somebody who, too, loves what Thorn has to offer, I just care about it a bit more than you do, obviously. And I will continue to try and encourage Dmitry to ponder over it, because it would make such a massive difference.
Right now, both Harmonic Filter and the oscillators have the exact same challenge, of course, which is the heart of the engine, too, and the main power features that set Thorn apart. Yes, glitch and fx and all the very cool stuff is beautiful and every bit as awesome, but the heart is the source of sound and it has just that much potential that it hurts me to miss out on using it completely.

How about I tell you that I don't care for your funny inversion business. It won't change a thing about the attractiveness of Thorn and mostly just serves your own wild ideas, likely for a hand full of sounds and forgotten just as quickly. Doesn't feel wonderful to read something like this, Peter? Really nice and friendly. I tried to help you up there, giving you another opportunity to clarify what you want, but no...has to be you again, right.

[] Peter:H []

Prepared for a wall of Sound????

For the last hour I have thrown together a demo of my PAD/Choir/String sounds - No, this is not Thorn only. Thorn IS the only Synth, but is accompanied by some "outboard" EQ, Dynamic and Reverb. Some of those patches is by the way based on Mellotron samples...There's no glitch sequencer used in the patches, just everything is "traditionaly" modulated. It's fun to have some LFOs and the "MSEG LFOs" run agains each other with different timings.

https://soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/ephe ... rn/s-MX08t

Toonertik has asked how many instances this track has been made with:
It's 9 instances only. One is for the taiko, one for the Arp, one is used only twice for some phrase starts. At most you're listening to only 6 pad instances all evolving with their pattern...to get an impression check out the track pic. The complexity in the sound comes from the clever sound design, each sound evolves and brings in some subtle changes and tiny nuances that add up to this wall of sound...
For instance you hear a rythmic thing later in the track - After I have imported some samples of an massive extract (massive the synth) I have replaced one slot with a simple square and let an LFO scan thru the slots. Voila you have an rhythmic element without glitch or arp...

[Taron]

The Choir is very nice, Peter! Reminds me somehow of Tron, again. Fun!
I've done a number of choirs, too, and a bunch of exciting sounds, which will come with my OSC submission.

And, Peter, I just don't like when you tell me: "I don't care about your suggestions, they're obsolete and irrelevant". This is the "lack of care of yours" I was talking about! Obviously you're deeply in love with Thorn, as many of us by now or even at first sight.

Leave Dmitry room to breath, though! Hahaha...EMAILS, oh dear...

[toonertik]

Hey gys.. this reminds me of my youth and guys fighting over a young girl..
while the boy she really liked slipped in the back door...
I get both your ideas for the Thorn..
So I will chuck in mine as well (Dmitry, you have your work cut out for months now.. )
I and others have mentioned a mix for Harmonic Filter.. also switches on each OSC like F1 & F2..
AND to choose if an OSC goes through the Arp and Glitch>>
This would open up such wonders for the sound designer
Also what would be really awesome is the 2 buss system as in Diversion.. in Ver 1.5 maybe >>
Oh and a cherry on top of the ice_cream ofc...

[toonertik]

Prepared for a wall of Sound????

It's fun to have some LFOs and the "MSEG LFOs" run agains each other with different timings.

Oh yes.. do the same thing, also using .ed and T variations.. )))
A bit like juggling.. some balls/clubs go high.. some pass quickly from hand to hand low .. BUT all in a syncopated rhythmic timing...
Unless there is THAT crash and all comes tumbling down!

[DogSnob]

The Sequencer has a max of 16 beats?
I hope that is increased to at least 32.
A randomizer on the velocity in the Arp section would help.

Low end Pads with a natural adsr are very hard work with Thorn.
Pads within Thorn are very CPU intensive.

[toonertik]

The Sequencer has a max of 16 beats?
I hope that is increased to at least 32.
A randomizer on the velocity in the Arp section would help.

You can put a "random" source onto any Arp step "velocity" target in the mod_Matrix.. if this is "sort" of what you mean.

[DogSnob]

The Sequencer has a max of 16 beats?
I hope that is increased to at least 32.
A randomizer on the velocity in the Arp section would help.

You can put a "random" source onto any Arp step "velocity" target in the mod_Matrix.. if this is "sort" of what you mean.

Very nearly, but hard work.
A one click is easier.

[Sound Author]

I have to agree with Taron. The Harmonic Filter and the Harmonic Oscillators are exactly what make Thorn so special, so the lack of flexibility therein does feel a bit disappointing. However, it's not always a lack of programming knowledge on Dmitry's part. The limitations of Thorn's spectral engine are mostly computational. Even on the most powerful systems, real time FFT processing is still nearly impossible. I'm sure Dmitry will figure out some shortcuts and nifty little workarounds. Until then, Thorn's shortcomings are easily forgiven.

[] Peter:H []

So I will chuck in mine as well (Dmitry, you have your work cut out for months now.. )
I and others have mentioned a mix for Harmonic Filter.. also switches on each OSC like F1 & F2..
AND to choose if an OSC goes through the Arp and Glitch>>
This would open up such wonders for the sound designer
Also what would be really awesome is the 2 buss system as in Diversion.. in Ver 1.5 maybe >>
Oh and a cherry on top of the ice_cream ofc...

I buy all that! Can I have it for christmas . P-l-e-a-s-e

[toonertik]

I buy all that! Can I have it for christmas . P-l-e-a-s-e

Well Peter...
Dmitry sent me the ice_cream WITH cherry on the top..
and told me to "suck on that kid">>
I will ofc share it with you

[toonertik]

I have to agree with Taron. The Harmonic Filter and the Harmonic Oscillators are exactly what make Thorn so special, so the lack of flexibility therein does feel a bit disappointing. Until then, Thorn's shortcomings are easily forgiven.

Yes exactly...
It really is like a thorn in my side... keeps itching and very frustrating when trying to create a simple patch>>
The Thorn itches and needs scratching... and so I find I am constantly back modulating away like the crazy fool I aspire to be..
and the Thorn can deliver in spades>>> I love it!