which hosts support step record/step edit/step entry/etc ..?

[moonlite]

I really think you should try programming rythms or arpeggios etc with a good step recording sequencer .. god only knows where you find one ;)

what the hell do I need a bug-hunt for when I have eXT & Orion's built in Arpegiator?!

YOU'RE the one who needs to look at other stuff..seriously..then there's xoxos midi plugs..

there's no f**king way I'll need an arpegiator that exceeds the abilities of:

eXT
Orion PLat
ERA
xoxos stuff


or *golly* selecting synths that have built in arps..

c'mon man..quit trying to sell me a parking space when I own a plaza, m'kay?

no no, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to force you to do anything. I just taugth you'd be interrested in finding a new technique =( ..

and of course I use all the other kinds of editing, too .. live recording, editing with mouse in piano roll etc .. how could I not have?

i just find this step-recording thing to be the one that suits me the best.

I really don't like arpeggiators .. and don't get me wrong, but I think there's just so much more important things to consider when selecting a synth than what kind of an arpeggiator it has ..

and, you actually mentioned it, it seems like ext HAS this capability I'm talking about, so there, you really don't need anything else ;)

plz don't misunderstand my intentions .. =(

[moonlite]

what do you use for your step recording needs these days?

You're courting disaster asking BONES these kinds of questions :P

haha, how come? :D

I'd really like to know ... since 1. this is the point of the whole thread (and the reason I stayed up till o3oo and still now, @ 11:30 havent yet gone to work ;)

and 2. if there wouldn't be this thread, I'd still find this about the most interresting question here @kvr ;))

get eXT & shiffrin's arp files, & chords, etc..

call me in the morning..

heh, I just woke up =) .. we're talkin' AM here in finland right now =)

yeah, I'm gonna sort out ext this evening (if I don't get caugth in kvr again ;)

... but I'd like to know of even more hosts than ext

[Sicklecell666]

oh man..here I go looking like a f**king Villian again..

Look mna..I read this thread like 4x trying to un-f**k what it was you were trying to sell to us about your method.

lemme give you some credit:

I came into Digital Audio in Cubase/vst & I couldn't f**king stand it.

I moved to Orion, then enhanced it with eXT..

most of my work is piano roll..

I ASKED you to outline what the hell step recording is, but you kept telling me to re-read the damn thread which I gleaned NOTHING from about your method other than it's name..

Do me a flavor:

walk me through a track creation in you host of choice & outline your method of 'step recording' a track that deviates from piano roll editing & MAYBE I'll see somenthing I have overlooked that can make my compositions easier..for which I'll be grateful..

I'm not trying to be a bad guy, I just have no f**king idea what you're talking about

edumacate me & I'll give you EXTREME props..



fair enough?

[stefancrs]

wtf, I refuse to vote. I would like to choose all those alternatives except "i write/draw the notes/midi data with my mouse. I find it very fast and efficient" ffs. I sometimes do step record, sometimes live recording (more and more, but I suck at it, that's what quantisizing / post editing is for), and often I do drafts of ideas when at work, then I for sure just use my mouse to do my little stupid sequences.

[BONES]

I wonder why no-one has ever done any arp files for ORION? I suppose that a lot of users don't even realise they can make their own very easily.

[Sicklecell666]

... but I'd like to know of even more hosts than ext

It's not the host, it's the PLUGIN..check this out:



description:

Features:

* Host synchronization for tempo, transport (play, pause, stop) and step-position.

* Global synchronization (mute, solo, play, record).

* Relative tempo from 1/32. to 32/1t.

* Sample accurate timing.

* Live and Step recording (step size and velocity adjustable).

* Global controllers for velocity, gate time, roll and delay.

* Realtime Shuffling of velocity, gate time, roll and delay.

* Selectable MIDI receive/send channel.

* Live pattern recall and arpeggiator transpose via note-on (keyboard).

* Well structured, lightweight user-interface with customizable definable color schemes.

* Strong editing options (reset, cut/copy/paste, +/-, move left/right, random).

* Quick drag/drop for copy/swap between programs, patterns, steps and rows.

* LEDs for visual feedback and live triggering of steps.

* Play modes for shift, split and pattern-select.

* Memory for 256 patterns up to 16 steps.

* Patterns can be chained together to any length.

* Panic function.

* Voice limiter (adjustable intelligent note-cutting).

* All controls can be used while playing, even program-change without discontinuity.

Per step control (rows):

* Main (mute/unmute, skip/hold, step-jump, dir-turn (both/left/right), tempo-change, sync-point, pattern-jump).

* Pitch (any note, even note-off).

* 12 percussion triggers (assignable).

* Velocity (more dynamics than only accent!).

* Chord (up/down 1-2 octaves, semitones, common chords).

* Gate time (duration from 1/8 step to 16 steps).

* Roll (note is triggered periodical up to 16 times, corresponding to chord/cut-up with adjustable length).

* Fills (like roll but preferred for percussion, soften/louder, different fill patterns).

* Delay (sample accurate delayed triggering to get the groove).

* 3 free assignable (control-change, pitch-bend, program-change, channel-aftertouch).












is there something I'm mising?

[Sicklecell666]

I wonder why no-one has ever done any arp files for ORION? I suppose that a lot of users don't even realise they can make their own very easily.

Mine are song dependent, that's why..they wouldn't have the same impact in another track

[moonlite]

oh man..here I go looking like a f**king Villian again.. :roll:

Look mna..I read this thread like 4x trying to un-f**k what it was you were trying to sell to us about your method.

lemme give you some credit:

I came into Digital Audio in Cubase/vst & I couldn't f**king stand it.

I moved to Orion, then enhanced it with eXT..

most of my work is piano roll..

I ASKED you to outline what the hell step recording is, but you kept telling me to re-read the damn thread which I gleaned NOTHING from about your method other than it's name..

Do me a flavor:

walk me through a track creation in you host of choice & outline your method of 'step recording' a track that deviates from piano roll editing & MAYBE I'll see somenthing I have overlooked that can make my compositions easier..for which I'll be grateful..

I'm not trying to be a bad guy, I just have no f**king idea what you're talking about :)

edumacate me & I'll give you EXTREME props..

fair enough?

as I told you earlier, it would be great if you could specify what it really is that you don't understand about the concept .. unless it's the whole thing =)

..

there's quite some modifying to do in logic before it enables you to step record conveniently ..

and since you have no clue in how to operate trackers, I'm not gonna go into that, 'cause you'd probably get a wrong impression of step editing because of the tracker environment.

but as soon as I figure out how to use ext I'll write you a short tutorial, ok? =)


but if you like, you could try some tutorials for trackers. they're really not that complicated. it's just like editing a spreasheet ..

but I'll give it one more shot, and i'll try keeping it as simple as possible:

let's work in 16:ns and make a melody

push a c1 in you'r midi keyboard. that's the first note (the first 1/16). push a d2 in a midi keyboard. the sequencer takes this as the second note (second 1/16). push a third note, e1, in you midi keyboard. the sequencer puts this as the third sixteenth in the melody. ..

continue till you have reached c2. you should now have 8 notes in your sequencer (sixteenths, after each other):

cdefgahc

and again, they all are the length of a 1/16 note.

so there you have the "melody", c major written in 1/16 notes.

and the entry works just like entering this text here. letters after letters.


do you get it now?


it is just like normal real-time sequencing, BUT with the significant difference, that the cursor doesn't go forward with time. it just jumps forward every time you press a note (or chord, or pause) in your midi keyb.

I really don't know how I could explain this simpler. maybe someone else would like to try?

but I:ll write the tutorial for you when i've figured out ext as I said. maybe that does the trick =)

[Sicklecell666]

OK, that IS intresting..lemme ask this:

when you are enteringthese notes, is the transport running, or does the app know to move forawrd 1/16th?

I DO find it intriguing, I'm just from a very different camp.


Likewise, if I can help you with eXT, lemme know.
Also, it has the best user/suppport group in KvR..you would do well to join us.

Ciao,
Donovan

[moonlite]

... but I'd like to know of even more hosts than ext

It's not the host, it's the PLUGIN..check this out:



description:

Features:

* Host synchronization for tempo, transport (play, pause, stop) and step-position.

* Global synchronization (mute, solo, play, record).

* Relative tempo from 1/32. to 32/1t.

* Sample accurate timing.

* Live and Step recording (step size and velocity adjustable).

* Global controllers for velocity, gate time, roll and delay.

* Realtime Shuffling of velocity, gate time, roll and delay.

* Selectable MIDI receive/send channel.

* Live pattern recall and arpeggiator transpose via note-on (keyboard).

* Well structured, lightweight user-interface with customizable definable color schemes.

* Strong editing options (reset, cut/copy/paste, +/-, move left/right, random).

* Quick drag/drop for copy/swap between programs, patterns, steps and rows.

* LEDs for visual feedback and live triggering of steps.

* Play modes for shift, split and pattern-select.

* Memory for 256 patterns up to 16 steps.

* Patterns can be chained together to any length.

* Panic function.

* Voice limiter (adjustable intelligent note-cutting).

* All controls can be used while playing, even program-change without discontinuity.

Per step control (rows):

* Main (mute/unmute, skip/hold, step-jump, dir-turn (both/left/right), tempo-change, sync-point, pattern-jump).

* Pitch (any note, even note-off).

* 12 percussion triggers (assignable).

* Velocity (more dynamics than only accent!).

* Chord (up/down 1-2 octaves, semitones, common chords).

* Gate time (duration from 1/8 step to 16 steps).

* Roll (note is triggered periodical up to 16 times, corresponding to chord/cut-up with adjustable length).

* Fills (like roll but preferred for percussion, soften/louder, different fill patterns).

* Delay (sample accurate delayed triggering to get the groove).

* 3 free assignable (control-change, pitch-bend, program-change, channel-aftertouch).












is there something I'm mising?

oh, cool .. this one has step recording as well. have to try that out as well.

would be nice though that the host itself would have this feature.


list of things to try out:

- energyxt
- cubase sx3
- era
- fl studio
- the new renoise

[moonlite]

OK, that IS intresting..lemme ask this:

when you are enteringthese notes, is the transport running, or does the app know to move forawrd 1/16th?

I DO find it intriguing, I'm just from a very different camp.


Likewise, if I can help you with eXT, lemme know.
Also, it has the best user/suppport group in KvR..you would do well to join us.

Ciao,
Donovan

the app moves the cursor forward a 1/16 every time you play a note OR a chord OR a pause.

just like the cursor moves in front of you when you edit text: every time you type a letter or a space the cursor moves.

now wouldn't it be hard to type text at /exactly/ the same timign as you speak?

or edit text with only a mouse?

step recording is very similar to writing text the "normal way"

this makes it extremely easy to write arpeggios and rythm sections.

as easy as writing this:

basic techno 4-on-the-floor in 1/8:s

b h b h b h b h ...

b=bassdrum, h=hihat, space=pause

or a hiphop comp (in 1/16:s):

b s bb b s b s bb b s

and I mean that it is EXACTLY as easy as writing the above.

EDIT: crap, kvr purges the exessive spaces between the bassdrum (b) and snare (s) in the hiphop comp =(

so I'll use periods instead of spaces:

b...s..bb.b.s...b...s..bb.b.s...

so b=bassdrum, .=pause, and s=snare.. and they're all in 1/16:s

[Sicklecell666]

ok, that's slick, I admit, & I was looking this afternoon hours before this discussion at the newest ReNoise..

I'll check that, YOU check eXT & ERA..

bets thing about ERA is you can drag that monster from one host to another

[SQ4]

does sq4^2 really incorporate a "step recording" function? and not a "step sequencer" like fl and orion etc etc? these two methods don't have much in common, and this is extremely important to me, since I've wasted too much time allready learning how to use software that ends up totally useless to me.

Is the UI really that confusing?

Anyway : SQ4² is all about step recording, whether you use a mouse, or push the record button and play your midi keyboard...The special thing about it, are the variable loopEnd points...

There's a demo available, (Installer + Remover) so no harm done by trying it.

[Sascha Franck]

f**k off! Everything I do is quantised to 1/16th, so what?

Yes, so what... that's why it does sound robotic. IMO your music is a prime example for robotic sounding stuff.
No, this isn't meant to be of any slagging nature, you may like robotic sounding music.
Personally I don't, at least not exactly.

Isn't that what muso's aim for anyway?

No freaking way!
All the "musos" I work with are trying to get their timing straight to gather some timing "freedom" - so if anybody would tell you to play this and that more relaxed you'd actually have a clue about what is meant.
Also, if you listen to any sort of "classic" rock and pop music, or any sort of "black" music (I know, that's not your COT), you will notice that one of the important things in this music is timing - DIFFERENT timing from straight quantized 16th notes that is.

The cool thing about step-recording is that you can concentrate on other things. I used to like using it with my M1/O1/W/Trinity so that I could get really good velocity data in.

Why wouldn't you be able to get "really good" velocity data in without step editing?

If I'd had to concentrate on getting the timing right the velocity would have definitely come out far more robotic-like so your assertion is flawed.

Pardon, but what a nonsense is this?
For any good player velocity (aka dynamics) and timing work hand-in-hand.
Maybe you should just practice on your playing skills...

However, to moonlite: What exactly is it that you don't like with Logic's step edit?

And, while I'm not using step edit at all, I allways found Cubase's interpretation of that rather welldone (one of the few things they did well...).

[moonlite]

ok, that's slick, I admit, & I was looking this afternoon hours before this discussion at the newest ReNoise..

I'll check that, I would suggest that



YOU check eXT & ERA..

bets thing about ERA is you can drag that monster from one host to another :P

If you mean checking renoise, I once again warn you that trackers may seem really restrictive at first. most people that grew up with trackers (like me) don't use them anymore.





I will =) (check out ext & era)