DAW Propaganda.....is it really a psychological affliction?

[dreamkeeper]

"tweak the eq knob till it sounds perfect, only to realize the eq wasn't enabled". McGurk effect in action.

No, that's called placebo-effect. Poor Mr. McGurk these days has to explain everything where perception and reality don't agree with each other. Just like poor Mr. Haas regarding 99% of everything related to short delays btw. Maybe the two should found a support group?

[Michael L]

Perhaps by sharing our wisdom in a thread about DAW Propaganda we increase our sense of self-worth, thus reducing our dependence on Tech and... making it easier to switch DAWs!

[SJ_Digriz]

We played the cable double blind test at an audiophile shop in Denver a few years ago. We used everything from $5K for 8ft PER SIDE, all the way down to .30 cents for about 20 feet. It wasn't speaker wire, it was just conductive stuff on a spool.

We set up an ABCDEF box out Edge monoblocks, which if memory servers were $15k a piece. These were fed from an Edge preamp (can't remember cost). All powering the top end Thiels (can't remember cost but you know they were like the cost of a house ... each).

First thing we did was make sure that they were level matched... they were without us having to do anything. Then, we did frequency sweeps and took waterfalls ... funny, all graphs identical with only slight variations on each run (in other words the same wire produced a microscopically different graph each time. Then we had 31 (wasn't intentional, that's just how many were around) people listen to a couple of reference clips classical/jazz/rock/pop on on each one twice. So, we had 62 votes. Scored on clarity, frequency range, low end presence, stereo image and overall order of finish 1 thru 6. The results were all over the map, but there was no indicator that anyone could pick the expensive wire. On overall score the expensive wire came in tied for 4th/5th. The cheap wire came in 3rd. Difference was 1 vote. Just regular old hookup wire won.... but by something like 3 votes. All wires got a perfect scorecard. All wires got a crap scorecard.

By the way, the people didn't know what cables were being used. In other words, they didn't know that one set was absolute cheap ass crapola practically bailing wire.

EDIT: sorry explained setup wrong. I think I have it right now.

[VariKusBrainZ]

^
Has the test been run with shitty audio equipment?

[HanafiH]

My question is how can anyone come up with a rational solution when emotion is more important than the facts when it comes to DAW's in an envoirment created by the loss of their favorite platform.

I can remember when Cakewalk was the most widely used music production software in North America. I can also remember when eMagic sold out to Apple and 70,000 PC Logic Pro users got thrown out with the bathwater. Excrement happens.

You’ll need to lock down the final version of Sonar, in a form you can reinstall on future machines, or lose all your back catalogue.

You’ll need to choose something else. Why did you choose Sonar in the first place? Have you learned any lessons since? You must choose something. Are you feeling logical or emotional? It hurts going up the learning curve one more time, again. In my experience, it’ll do more to develop whatever skills you have, than staying in the safe same old same old ever does.

Follow the GAS.

[slipstick]

Look it's obvious that the DAW I use is by far the best DAW available anywhere at any price...for me, of the few that I've tried seriously.

But since you aren't me and you probably don't do what I do the way I like to do it there's no point me recommending it to you. In fact I won't even mention it's name.

The problem with being forced to move from an environment you know is that what you end up looking for is something exactly like what you're used to, only with less problems (so not exactly like it then) and with quite a few improvements (so really not exactly like it) and probably cheaper and with better support. It's not going to be easy to find.

Steve

[whyterabbyt]

Sonar's demise coincided with me having to rebuild my DAW from scratch. I'd only just got it reinstalled, though none of the plugins etc. Took me five minutes to decide to uninstall it, to invest the time in something else instead.
It wasnt my only tool, as I also have the more focussed Live and ProTools, and I also rely heavily on Bidule, but it was the 'broad spectrum' one. Took a little bit longer to decide not to bother with finding a direct replacement.

I think since its demise Ive been called a 'fanboy' several times for correcting the respective sillies of various fuckmuppets who were jumping in glee at the demise of other people's favoured tools. Generally KVR has always had a very vocal core who were hostile towards Sonar; I think the 'psychological afflication' description here has been far more obvious in that direction.
I found the CW forums odd, not quite hostile, but rather narrow in perspective. I think there became much more of a siege bunker mindset at the CW forums over the past few years, but really it was the result of the same little pockets of mob mentalilty you frequently see here, just narrower in scope.

[CTStump]

Sonar's demise coincided with me having to rebuild my DAW from scratch. I'd only just got it reinstalled, though none of the plugins etc. Took me five minutes to decide to uninstall it, to invest the time in something else instead.
It wasnt my only tool, as I also have the more focussed Live and ProTools, and I also rely heavily on Bidule, but it was the 'broad spectrum' one. Took a little bit longer to decide not to bother with finding a direct replacement.

I think since its demise Ive been called a 'fanboy' several times for correcting the respective sillies of various fuckmuppets who were jumping in glee at the demise of other people's favoured tools. Generally KVR has always had a very vocal core who were hostile towards Sonar; I think the 'psychological afflication' description here has been far more obvious in that direction.
I found the CW forums odd, not quite hostile, but rather narrow in perspective. I think there became much more of a siege bunker mindset at the CW forums over the past few years, but really it was the result of the same little pockets of mob mentalilty you frequently see here, just narrower in scope.

Here, there anywhere these day's where DAW software is discussed. I have 6 different DAW's loaded and probably will load more in the future but I really do a lot of work in my obselete favorite Sonar 8.5. The X series didn't offer me anything that I could live without so I stayed right there 8.5 with no regret.

If it was the only DAW i could keep I'de still be quite alright. I definitely wouldn't dis anybody else for their choices but then I kinda expect that some are sensitive about what they are using. I too have been called a fanboi, for a diferent DAW.

It is just a tool......though some User's can be tools....including myself....I guess.

[SJ_Digriz]

^
Has the test been run with shitty audio equipment?

No, we just did the one test. We started to do it with interconnects, but everyone was bored and we were pretty sure it would end up the same. It wasn't an official thing, it just sort of organically happened because a few of us were arguing about those stupidly expensive cables.

This has led to me to not believe in magical cables other than length/impedance related stuff because those filtering effects are measurable and consistent.

[SJ_Digriz]

I put that story here not to start a cables war, but to point out how misleading effective marketing can be, to the point of people using correct scientific data, to support completely unrelated results. Molecularly phased aligned silver will not conduct an audio band signal any better than a rusty coat hangar over 4 or 5 feet. It won't make the highs more airy, or the lows have more presence.

But the group think thing is internet 101. It's an attack on science and reality by people who don't really understand either. For example, I asked wtf does bass presence mean. I got 4 slightly different answers from 4 people. So, let's use an ambiguous subjective term to validate a scientific data. Those things are like a university board voting that the world is flat. It doesn't make it so.

I'm not sure that Sonar was under any more attack than FLStudio or Samplitube. However, people propagating FUD seems to be an internet hobby.

[Jafo]

Alas, humans aren't rational. (I don't mean "emotionless" -- any logic which ignores emotions isn't very logical.) That's why we end up with professional liars (i.e., politicians) selling us on terror and trumped-up in-group vs. out-group politics, crazed flag-waving racists deciding what media is acceptable, and the concept of "fighting for peace." Then again, it also allows for the magic of movies, sound design and stage magic.

[neverenoughfunk]

great thread here... your DAW is only a conduit for your musical ideas... i.e. the idea(s) have to exist first... if the idea exist first how could the DAW stop you from making music? usually, you set a time signature/temp, loop points... then load an instrument... and you are on your way... individuals keep missing the fact that whatever DAW one uses the ACTUALLY music will sound the same... exactly the same... the DAW is not making the music because it is the conduit... the INDIVIDUAL is...

[EdgarRothermich]

These are tools used to make art, used by artists.

These are tools ... YES

Cars are tools too to get you from A to B, but people are still passionate about their car is better than others

SImilar thing with the word "perfect DAW". This is highly subjective, because a DAW can only be perfect for a specific person with a specific need and workflow. That same DAW is completely "imperfect for a different person with different need

[generaldiomedes]

Every post is an implied opinion, take it or leave it. However the fact is it is my opinion.

I used reaper and personally felt the GUI was a mess after finally checking out some better designed DAWs, true story.

[SJ_Digriz]

Every post is an implied opinion, take it or leave it. However the fact is it is my opinion.

Actually a lot of people confuse the fact of their opinion when there is actually a non-subjective fact in contradiction already. The mix of objective data vs subjective opinion gets munged together. The anti-science hatred of anything approaching the educated approach to analysis is shunned as elitist. Which is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALALALLALALALALALA so you don't have to hear things like "You're fired", or "Clean your room".

I used reaper and personally felt the GUI was a mess after finally checking out some better designed DAWs, true story.

Yes this is in fact your opinion, one which I wholeheartedly agree with.