Hi everybody,
I've been using Sonar until three years ago, when I switched to Reaper. I absolutely don't regret, and I love the fact that when I watch a Reaper video tutorial, I quite often say "Wow, cool, I didn't know I can do that!". So I'm very enthusiast with it. I have to admit though that I haven't tried other DAWs.
So I've been naturaly interested about all the discussions concerning the move Gibson did with Sonar. I can feel the pain of the users. And of course I've also been interested about the alternatives to ex-Sonar users. Reading this topic "http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7&t=495522", I came to this questionning: why do the opinions about Reaper are so polarized? It seems that there are those who hate it like plague, and those that it would be the only thing they'd brought on a desert island. Not much people in between. I have the impression that this polarization is more present with Reaper than with other DAWs (but I may be wrong).
So, any toughts about it?
Marc
Polarized opinions about Reaper
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- Banned
- 94 posts since 6 Dec, 2004 from Montreal, Quebec
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35446 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Early on, the vocal proponents of Reaper round here tended to be, erm, well, a little overenthusiastic. Think of everything pejorative associated with 'fanboy.' Reaper was the best thing ever, everyone who disagreed would eventually wind up seeing the light and using it anyway yada yada yada. The more obnoxious end of proselytising, to be honest, which of course immediately put people's backs up.
In the end, that's become saner, because Reaper won its subsequent audience share on being a decent solution, not because of the early adopters who insisted at the drop of a hat it was the bestest solution ever ever ever. There was even an odd 'Im the rebel who knows the real truth' vibe to it; I actually remember one guy who managed to roll it into his obvious inferiority complex regarding what he kept referring to as 'conservatoires,' and mainstream studios.
So it basically became a standing joke that you couldn't ask a question round here without someone proposing Reaper as the solution. Technically, though it isnt that universal a solution, and its implementations arent always best-of-breed, and its feature set tend to be the iteration of other developer's ideas, etc etc so that kind of thing wasnt well received in this community, that had a pretty broad spectrum of DAW users. Way back then it had fairly atrocious MIDI editing for example, and was hardly a viable replacement for someone MIDI-centric, but that didnt stop the reccomendation.
And as I say, that put people's backs up; the polarisation came, not Reaper-versus-whatever, but Reaper-fan-versus-whoever. That's mostly a thing of the past now, though, but the Reaper-in-every-thread joke remains.
As a bit of software, the mixer-centricity and second-class track controls, the focus on surface UI (skinning) instead of useful interaction (routing or plugin interfaces), things like that are still my main bones of contention regarding useage. But it was more the narrowminded of the 'evangelists' that put me off in the first place.
These days, though, there's at least one theme that isnt bloody awful. We've come a long way baby.
In the end, that's become saner, because Reaper won its subsequent audience share on being a decent solution, not because of the early adopters who insisted at the drop of a hat it was the bestest solution ever ever ever. There was even an odd 'Im the rebel who knows the real truth' vibe to it; I actually remember one guy who managed to roll it into his obvious inferiority complex regarding what he kept referring to as 'conservatoires,' and mainstream studios.
So it basically became a standing joke that you couldn't ask a question round here without someone proposing Reaper as the solution. Technically, though it isnt that universal a solution, and its implementations arent always best-of-breed, and its feature set tend to be the iteration of other developer's ideas, etc etc so that kind of thing wasnt well received in this community, that had a pretty broad spectrum of DAW users. Way back then it had fairly atrocious MIDI editing for example, and was hardly a viable replacement for someone MIDI-centric, but that didnt stop the reccomendation.
And as I say, that put people's backs up; the polarisation came, not Reaper-versus-whatever, but Reaper-fan-versus-whoever. That's mostly a thing of the past now, though, but the Reaper-in-every-thread joke remains.
As a bit of software, the mixer-centricity and second-class track controls, the focus on surface UI (skinning) instead of useful interaction (routing or plugin interfaces), things like that are still my main bones of contention regarding useage. But it was more the narrowminded of the 'evangelists' that put me off in the first place.
These days, though, there's at least one theme that isnt bloody awful. We've come a long way baby.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 94 posts since 6 Dec, 2004 from Montreal, Quebec
Interesting. You make me realize that a number of posts mentionning Reaper were quite funny indeed! What is fascinating is that some aspects of the program can be a PITA for some users and a joy for others (eg the points you raised in your last paragraph). That makes life intersting, I guess!
Marc
Marc
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- Banned
- 1779 posts since 26 Aug, 2012
Shit, it shouldn't matter what pweeple think about which daw is cool or not. just what'z right for you.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35446 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Yeah. Pweeple suck.Kinh wrote:Shit, it shouldn't matter what pweeple think about which daw is cool or not. just what'z right for you.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRist
- 353 posts since 6 May, 2005
Anyone think it's a possibility that Reaper having such a trusting honor based demo policy has without doubt caused some trouble to other companies with less accessible demos with more limitations, ect.
Knowing that you may have to buy some hardware, or jump through several activation processes just to demo something can turn people away.
It's not just that though. It's fast development, relative ease of use and huge community have given it a foothold in the top ranks.
Knowing that you may have to buy some hardware, or jump through several activation processes just to demo something can turn people away.
It's not just that though. It's fast development, relative ease of use and huge community have given it a foothold in the top ranks.
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- KVRAF
- 35674 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
On the other hand, software like Reaper polarizes more, because it is developed and aimed for a special audience, which is rather people who know what they want, and take advantage of the possibilities of the program to customize it exactly to their needs, simply because it allows that. That, of course, the other hand will rather make it a more complicated host than must of the "fire it up, and learn by doing" solutions, so it may put as many people of as it attracts. The simple looking GUI doesn't benefit regarding that either.lobanov wrote:Why? Opinions about all the things in this world are polarized. Reaper isn't an exclusion.
That said though, for me, Reaper is decently easy to use. I really hate menus with dozens of entries though.
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- KVRAF
- 4075 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Reaper is fine and all, if you have the time and patience. What it lacks is proper UI and workflow design, some say that's because you can make what you want of it but I disagree, yes you can customize and develop your own workflow but it is not coherent in the way Live, Bitwig, Reason, Studio One, Logic or cubase are. The development has totally ignored UI and workflow, leaving it to the user.
It lacks direction, it is kind of all tools together because it is possible to implement it. For many who know what they want it may be a blessing but for others it just becomes a mess.
It lacks direction, it is kind of all tools together because it is possible to implement it. For many who know what they want it may be a blessing but for others it just becomes a mess.
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- 2807 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
Will never understand why people defend their DAW (in general: purchases) until 'someone cries'. Well, actually, I know what's the trigger behind those fights and it has a lot to do with the above mentioned inferiority complex. Even the 'rebel'-thing is related to this mental precondition quite often (but not in any case).
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- KVRist
- 362 posts since 11 Jan, 2014
once there was a thread about a user asking for an alternative to R and he was recommended R by one of the evangelists...
edit: the answer made obious that this evangelist had not read the original post but jumped board by the sheer R in the thread's title.
some of them try to explain every issue/niggle/oddity with the possibility to adjust and tweak everything.
i had hillarious moments with those fanboys but they didn't succeed. ymmv
edit: the answer made obious that this evangelist had not read the original post but jumped board by the sheer R in the thread's title.
some of them try to explain every issue/niggle/oddity with the possibility to adjust and tweak everything.
i had hillarious moments with those fanboys but they didn't succeed. ymmv
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- KVRian
- 707 posts since 29 Dec, 2016 from India
if there are two options then there will be polarization
like in viewtopic.php?f=7&t=495154
where a ableton user stated it clearly
"Bypass studio one and cubase. Think future. Ableton is the future, studio one and cubase are the past.
Protools and ableton. The only 2 you need."
and
after saying him that it all comes to liking, preference and some limitations he said
"People like Zedd use Cubase because it's all they've ever known and why jump ship? especially when there's a learning curve involved in starting a new process. Reality is Zedd could get a lot more done if he made the move to Ableton land. You say people swear by Cubase's workflow. Do they really? Have you asked them if workflow is the main reason for continuing with CB? NO. You will find workflow isn't #1 on their initiative list, id be something else like familiarity.
People are afraid of change but that doesn't mean change is a bad thing."
yup some people are polarized as magnetic north and south
if you ask a guy who came from cubase (like me or any other guy switching daws)(PS:if you here a guy that he switched from cubase to reaper remember it will be due to either his job or he is broke suddenly)
he in some way will say
"no daw is perfect,each has its own limitation and BS'ness
some can ignore that, other cant"
like in viewtopic.php?f=7&t=495154
where a ableton user stated it clearly
"Bypass studio one and cubase. Think future. Ableton is the future, studio one and cubase are the past.
Protools and ableton. The only 2 you need."
and
after saying him that it all comes to liking, preference and some limitations he said
"People like Zedd use Cubase because it's all they've ever known and why jump ship? especially when there's a learning curve involved in starting a new process. Reality is Zedd could get a lot more done if he made the move to Ableton land. You say people swear by Cubase's workflow. Do they really? Have you asked them if workflow is the main reason for continuing with CB? NO. You will find workflow isn't #1 on their initiative list, id be something else like familiarity.
People are afraid of change but that doesn't mean change is a bad thing."
yup some people are polarized as magnetic north and south
if you ask a guy who came from cubase (like me or any other guy switching daws)(PS:if you here a guy that he switched from cubase to reaper remember it will be due to either his job or he is broke suddenly)
he in some way will say
"no daw is perfect,each has its own limitation and BS'ness
some can ignore that, other cant"
REAPER, Phase Plant , Unfiltered Audio TRIAD and LION, NI classic collection,......... ETC
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- KVRian
- 570 posts since 9 Jan, 2012 from Dona Ana, New Mexiico in the US of A
Reaper does work....for those that choose to use it.
I myself hsve tried at least 3 times over the years it's been out there but like Ardour it just gathers dust and takes up drive space. Two DAWs different workflows that I'm sorry I could never get a flow going on.
That's me though. There is a reason to wonder what all the fuss is about on both sides of the Reaper debate. The hyperbole does amuse me at times.
I myself hsve tried at least 3 times over the years it's been out there but like Ardour it just gathers dust and takes up drive space. Two DAWs different workflows that I'm sorry I could never get a flow going on.
That's me though. There is a reason to wonder what all the fuss is about on both sides of the Reaper debate. The hyperbole does amuse me at times.
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- KVRAF
- 6097 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
Like all things internet, you can't discuss without lunatics flooding the airwaves. I'm primarily a Cubase user. I have a license for Reaper, Sonar, FLStudio, Reason, Samplitube and PT. I could easily use all of these other than FLStudio if something happened to the Borgz. I could even use FLStudio, but it would be like fighting with one hand tied behind my back. Of these, I'd probably switch to Samplitube. Reaper would be just ahead of FLStudio. I just can't stomach the interface. It has some kick assed features and ideas. But, it's like using a linux system 15 years ago in comparison to the rest.
That said, the two DAWs that I just can't use at all are Live and Bitwig. I love the idea. But, just can't do music that way. It's like making a play list instead of writing a song.
Everybody thinks their DAW is villainized by visigoth "outsiders". Those damned ignorant, unwashed masses.
That said, the two DAWs that I just can't use at all are Live and Bitwig. I love the idea. But, just can't do music that way. It's like making a play list instead of writing a song.
Everybody thinks their DAW is villainized by visigoth "outsiders". Those damned ignorant, unwashed masses.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 94 posts since 6 Dec, 2004 from Montreal, Quebec
Well I started this thread not to have opinions about why Reaper (or any other DAW) is crap or is a godsend (there are enough threads about it), but to try to understand why it seems that opinions are more polarized compared to other DAWs. whyterabbyt gave some clues based on historical reasons and it makes sense. The customiztion capabilities seem to be also a part of the answer - some see that as a clear advantage to get a very efficient workflow, while some others see that as lack of uniformity. The GUI is also a valid point. It is extremely subjective (I personnaly really like Reaper's GUI), but I can understand that one may not like it. Fascinating, really.
Marc
Marc