What makes analog so analog?

[tee boy]

It is true. I can sense things well above 20 kHz, but they are often vague sensations. There is usually no perception of pitch, very poor perception of location, etc. The ability also varies from day to day.

Mate i have the exact same thing! I cant tell you how many times a strip light, or knackered old TV have drove round the bend. Nobody seems aware of it except me, which makes it all the more annoying. Whether this is some kind of feedback in the ear i dont know, but it would be nice to find out.

[tony tony chopper]

But this isn't a debate about what makes them different

you have to agree you mislead us a bit by naming your thread 'what makes analog so analog?'

It's just sad that I had to read through 13 pages of everything from anal obstruction to the butterfly effect

but that's just A to B, now we still have C to Z to go

[DuX]

My thoughts exactly, however, to emulate all of the electronic components, you need a lot of computing power, and I mean a LOT. So for now, developers are doing their best to emulate at least some parts and hopefully, some time in the future, they will start making pretty exact emulations. As I remember, a few years back someone asked Jason (!Jason development - !ninja) that question and he answered that today's CPUs just aren't that powerful - YET .

Cheers.

[kuniklo]

That's sad folks, just plain sad. It's been a long time since I've been so dissappointed in a group of people, not because you dissaggree with me, but because so many of you failed to understand that I wasn't debating which is better! The question is: IS IT FEASABLE TO MAKE AN ANALOG / DIGITAL HYBRID SYNTH?

It's not only feasible - it's been done. I know Waldorf made some synths with digital oscillators and analog filters. I'm not aware of any existing synths with analog oscillators and digital filters but I'm not really familiar with hardware synths. There certainly aren't any technical reasons you couldn't mix and match analog and digital components.

There are also synths that are all analog but use digital circuitry to keep the analog components in tune. The Alesis Andromeda, for example has analog oscs and filters but has digital controls to keep the analog oscs in tune. Those controls can be disabled if you want a rougher, more vintage analog sound. The Andromeda also feeds the analog signal through digital effects at the end of the signal path so I'm assuming the Andromeda engineers felt that running the analog sound through a digital stage wouldn't necessarily destroy the "analog" quality of the sound.

[Meffy]

It's been a long time since I've been so dissappointed in a group of people

My deepest apologies. I hadn't realized my mission was to please you. Now that I know, it won't happen again. Every thread will remain on topic, and no unseemly jocularity will intrude.

*bow*

Meffy

[McLilith]

But this isn't a debate about what makes them different, it was a debate about the feasability of integrating the two in a way that I've never heard of before.

No sir, you asked if you could replace some of the analog modules in a hypothetical analog synth with digital modules and have the result still sound "analog" in nature, and if so, which modules could be replaced. This naturally sparks some discussion about what the essence of "analog character" is, and what contributes to it. Understanding this, goes a long way toward being able to answer your question about which modules could be switched and still maintain that "analog" character.

That's sad folks, just plain sad. It's been a long time since I've been so dissappointed in a group of people, not because you dissaggree with me, but because so many of you failed to understand that I wasn't debating which is better! The question is: IS IT FEASABLE TO MAKE AN ANALOG / DIGITAL HYBRID SYNTH?

That "original question" has changed again.

Of course, it's feasible to make an analog / digtal hybrid synth. It's been done many times. The Oberheim Matrix that you dismissed so quickly is but one example of a possible analog/digital hybrid synth.

If you claim your question is really "Can we create a feasible analog/digtal hybrid using a personal computer to provide the digital "brains" of the system?" The answer is still a resounding yes. It's also been done already, but I can't think of any commercial systems that are just like what you described.

The Oberhiem sounds nice, but it's not what this is about,

Depending on which of your questions you are referring to, it most certainly is on topic.

nor does it answer my question.

Once again, depending on which of your questions you are referring to, it certainly does provide one possible valid answer.

Get your questions straight, and decide exactly what it is you want to know, before you start scolding everyone for responding to what you actually asked, instead of telling you what you actually wanted to know!


take care,
McLilith

[Meffy]

Nobody seems aware of it except me, which makes it all the more annoying.

Just good hearing at high frequencies, I think. I used to have that, ever since testing in the early 1960s. Now I'm getting (just a tiny bit) older, and large video monitors don't seem to bother me as much... but then I mostly use LCDs these days so... *shrug*

I agree, it's annoying as all get out. >_<

Meffy

[aMUSEd]

The question is: IS IT FEASABLE TO MAKE AN ANALOG / DIGITAL HYBRID SYNTH?

Isn't that sort of what Korg are doing with their "valve force" technology used on some of the new Electribes and other's (a Triton I believe has it too) - VA core technology combined with real valves to create an analogue finish.

[HanafiH]

Right my three ha’pence worth. I’ve used analogs for over thirty years, I also use virtual analogs in hardware and software. There is a distinct quality to real analogs. The nearest virtual thing I’ve found to that quality is the Yamaha AN1/AN150 virtual analog which is, AFAIK, the only virtual analog that models the physical circuitry of a synth, not the mathematic functionality of it’s components.

Given that we’re dealing with perception and preference, my perception of real analogs is that this quality arises from the interaction between the various components, VCO, VCF, VCA and so on, between each other as well as their functional qualities taken separately. It’s my impression that that’s why some virtuals sound less liquid, vibrant and open than most real analogs, and possibly why the Yamaha physical model gets a lot closer to this than most.

That said, the only digital synth I’ve ever used that has the presence and fluidity of an analogue, the FS1R, is an entirely digital synth running at 2496 internal. It’s foolish to condemn the search for the perfect virtual analog as I’m certain it is possible.

[Meffy]

Isn't that sort of what Korg are doing with their "valve force" technology used on some of the new Electribes and other's (a Triton I believe has it too) - VA core technology combined with real valves to create an analogue finish.

The tubes (sorry, I'm Usonian) are a nice touch.

Plenty of mixed digital/analog stuff out there, using all kinds of mix-modes. The maker of a certain modular soft synth that I use held a poll a while back to determine whether or not to go into a semi-hardware version, and I'm sure other manufacturers have looked into it too. Each maker has its own take on where to draw the line between the emulated and the "real," which is part of the zest of watching the market.

Meffy

[Rabid]

What makes and analog sound analog?

No CPU level to watch and worry about.

Robert

[wrench45us]

i seem to recall the smell of warmed electronics as well. at least on the bigger ones.

[Robert Randolph]

This thread was one fun and informative.. slowly moving into semantics, which it drifted out of... hell, even gol contributed in a sensible manner...

Now it seemms it's a talk about what the thread is about... let me know when we're actually talking in the thread again, not about it.

[valley]

What makes and analog sound analog?

No CPU level to watch and worry about.

Yeah, when your sound source is entirely monophonic you never have to worry too much about how many keys you can hold down at once...

[Rabid]

Anyone interested in digital music artifacts should pick up a packet that demonstrates visual Moray effects. It makes for a nice visual representation of what can happen to digital music. I have a set which is pictures and grids on clear plastic that can be overlaid. And it is not just music. Anyone that does a company spreadsheet runs into the problem of digital inaccuracy.

Robert