My first week using REAL TAPE (vs plugins)

[zenvoxpop]

After years of demoing countless tape plugins, watching bunch of youtube videos on tape related issues, reading up on forums and random PDF articles, I've finally get to used a proper tape machine. I mean, expensive one, fully restored vintage Telefunken Magnetophon A15 15IPS from 70ies in mint condition. I've been using it for the last week, so while it's not a long period of time, I'm beginning to get a feel for what tape actually does.

-Compression
Compression is quite apparent if I am being honest, but in a soft pillow-like way and mostly affecting low to mid frequency. On high frequency heavy material there is not a lot of compression going on.

-Saturation
Saturation is extremely gradual and you don't actually hear it until you hear it bypassed. You don't hear the crunch, so to speak. You can overdrive it massively, and it will still sound OK in a weird way.

-Frequency response
Almost flat, there is not much HF loss, tape bump is there but again nothing major.

-Cross-talk, noise, wow, flutter
It's there but on such a microscopic level, it's almost something you can forget about it. Most plugins are much less subtle in this area, and greatly exaggerate this feature to almost comical effect. There is a slight stereo widening effect though, but nothing major.

-Overall impression
It's does not sound OMG IT SOUNDS SOO FAT AND WIDE. It's more, hmm that sound more relaxed/natural and fit together much more nicely. It's subtle and forgiving and it never sounds wrong. It's much more subtle than I expected.

-Comparing the real deal with plugins
Plugins are NOT so far off from real tape sound. I'd say that for saturation aspect of tape I'd go with Satin or Magnetite, and for compression I'd say Hornet Tape is surprisingly the closest. I personally would use Satin first and than Hornet Tape second, but that is just me.

[bmanic]

I have two of those machines in my studio. It's always amusing when I get clients who absolutely insist on having their stuff run through tape (last time this happened was like 5 years ago so it's not often) even though I tell them I charge extra, quite a lot extra due to the expense of tape, maintenance and setup then once they hear it, they usually go: "That's it?" "I was expecting a lot more "grunge" and spank".. at which point I usually tell them we should have gone with the Revox or a cassette tape machine instead.

Yeah, high-end tape machines aren't grunge nor saturation boxes. When properly maintained and calibrated they can be extremely transparent. There's also no immediate "magic" in my opinion. Some material definitely benefits from being run through the tape but there is tons of material that does not.

[zenvoxpop]

Some material definitely benefits from being run through the tape but there is tons of material that does not.

On which material would you say tapesound just doesn't work well? I'm still learning

[bmanic]

I had quite a few people want me to run their EDM tracks and various stems through tape.. not a single one was apparently satisfactory. Whereas anything rock/heavy or "transient" heavy that needs to be tamed usually benefits a bit from going through the process. Yeah, the cliche of running a miked up drumkit through tape still holds. There are definite advantages in this case.. but again, plugins are getting awfully good. The difference isn't night and day as it at some point many moons ago was.

I also had somebody want to run a voice-over through the tape but even that one ended up being later used without the processing.

Anything that needs a very clear tape vibe or any kind of heavy processing usually benefits more from the Revox b76 or even cassette.. but usually at that point we just go with plugins (many of which are now really good at doing the grunge thing).

It's also possible that the effect is simply not desired any more at this point in time. Like I said, the high-end machines are awfully transparent and if anything I think people now are even less sensitive to subtle differences. Everything has to be immediately obvious and rather heavy handed.

[camsr]

It's not only tape, but it's working with tape that adds to it's sound. For example, noise reduction is a fairly large part of the sound of cassette. It's called a "necessary evil".

[SparkySpark]

if anything I think people now are even less sensitive to subtle differences. Everything has to be immediately obvious and rather heavy handed.

So true. I recall when SACD was the next big thing and it really was an immense experience listening to it on a superb system (I had the opportunity during a music convention). But what happened? MP3, iPod, etc, and the compressor is always cranked up (or is it down) at the commercial radio stations, playing EDM pop where sloppy bassdrum side compression has already sucked the life out of most musicality.

It seems we spend a lot of our time on sonic fidelity when the users don't really care much. But of course, for ourselves it is still a pleasure listening to a good mix.

[clintmartin]

I've been thinking about getting Hornet Tape. When tried the demo I was pretty surprised by it. The group feature is very nice. I wish Reelbus had that.

[zenvoxpop]

I've been thinking about getting Hornet Tape. When tried the demo I was pretty surprised by it. The group feature is very nice. I wish Reelbus had that.

Hornet Tape is extremely minimal at what it does, but it does that one thing right.

[bmanic]

You can't go wrong with the Hornet plugins. Some are a bit hit and miss but in general it's excellent stuff at very fair prices.

I'm a big fan of having quite a few tape emulations around because they all bring something different to the table. I can't really be bothered to load up a reel on either the Telefunken or Revox just to insert a bit of tape on a single snare or kick track.. heck I don't think I've used the machines on my own stuff in ages.

[clintmartin]

Yeah, I think for the price the Hornet Tape is a no brainer. I like what I heard with the demo.
I did also buy the Waves J37 for $29, and I have Reelbus and Magnetic II.
Those four should cover a lot of ground.
I have a friend who owns a Tascam 24 track with 1" tape. I would like to try it sometime!

[Yudaidhun]

I fixed and calibrated about 50 tape decks.
IMHO, tape simulators don't sound like real tape.
If you really need tape sound, using real tape would be the only solution.
I think what users need is good saturator and not an actual tape sound for the most time.
I also have few of my favorite tape simulators to get nice saturation but never use to substitute the real one.

Here is my comparison, 4 tape decks VS popular tape plugins.
AmenBreak -> DA -> Real Tape -> AD
AmenBreak -> Plugins (96kHz/24bit) -> DA-> AD
https://clyp.it/qk5oqxqu

You can clearly hear the difference between plugin and analog.
(And you may also noticed some plugs work pretty well!)
Check yourself how the real tape kill the attack, and how it decrease low and high.

[Teksonik]

I'm beginning to get a feel for what tape actually does.

It makes your audio sound muddy and unrefined.

Plugins are NOT so far off from real tape sound.

Why would anyone want to emulate real tape sound ? It's a step backwards. What's next a plugin that emulates a 60Hz Hum ?

[Ramm Darkened]

I'm beginning to get a feel for what tape actually does.

It makes your audio sound muddy and unrefined.

Plugins are NOT so far off from real tape sound.

Why would anyone want to emulate real tape sound ? It's a step backwards. What's next a plugin that emulates a 60Hz Hum ?

Because of Slate Digital fanboy-ism? lol jk

[do_androids_dream]

Yeah, high-end tape machines aren't grunge nor saturation boxes. When properly maintained and calibrated they can be extremely transparent. There's also no immediate "magic" in my opinion. Some material definitely benefits from being run through the tape but there is tons of material that does not.

Yes.. and the only tape plugin I've heard that actually 'gives' this kind of sonic effect is Bootsie's Ferric TDS. And, just like tape, some things do not benefit from being run through it.

[Ichad.c]

I fixed and calibrated about 50 tape decks.
IMHO, tape simulators don't sound like real tape.
If you really need tape sound, using real tape would be the only solution.
I think what users need is good saturator and not an actual tape sound for the most time.

Yeah, some interesting advice. When I gave up my Sony 4-track many years ago I couldn't find anything to replace it with, so I decided just to not have any tape-simulation plugs, worked out fine in the end.

Actually planning on restoring an old Uher 'portable' (suit-case size) reel-to-reel from the early 70s, I got 2 so using the one for back-up mechanical parts, all discrete germanium amps, noisy as hell, needs a recap and calibration is way out - gonna be a fun lo-fi toy when it is done.

What's next a plugin that emulates a 60Hz Hum ?

Depends on your definition of hum, 'hum' that you hear through a speaker when nothing is playing is annoying as hell but power supply 'leakage' makes up some of the sound of 'classic' audio gear, (most notably guitar amps with tube power supplies), if you remove it, it just won't sound the same, probably not worse either and probably not better either, just different. Read an interesting patent a couple years ago that has always stuck in my head - it literally replicates the sag/dynamic DC/hum of tube power supplies with solid-state stages.

Also read an interesting AES paper yesterday, and guess what famous tube compressor has power-supply leakage that interacts with the side-chain - therefore creating in technically terms -> inharmonic spectra/intermodulation distorion...the Fairchild 670. Can't paste a picture of the plot here unfortunately, think it would violate the AES T and C's unfortunately.

P.S. I'm no analog purist or anything stupid like that, I just like anything that sounds good to me. You get crap digital and crap analog and the inverse is also true. I just don't think we should judge any piece of gear or software out there just on 'visual' specs, but rather judge it in the mix.

Regards
Andrew