KVR Audio

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:02 am

Although I don't care about media awards, I'm thinking of buying Bitwig v1 license from the 2nd hand market, as I have a Nektar keyboard which integrates very well with it.

I'm happy with Cubase/Nektar combo but want to try clips and scenes workflow sometimes. The 8-track version is so limited unfortunately, so I'm looking for the full version.

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:44 am

Bitwig 2 got their votes before Ableton 10 came out so it's understandable.
Affordability is clearly one of the reasons people voted but is the cheaper product better than the expensive one? Usually not... I remember FL taking 1st prize a lot.

telecharge · Post by **telecharge** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:05 am

Well, it seems to me that better and best will always be subjective, and never universally agreed upon.

For the record, I have nothing against Bitwig, and truly wish them success. I believe competition is good for the consumer, and it's great we have all these choices.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:43 am

Kinh wrote:Bitwig 2 got their votes before Ableton 10 came out so it's understandable.
Affordability is clearly one of the reasons people voted but is the cheaper product better than the expensive one? Usually not... I remember FL taking 1st prize a lot.

How is release of Live 10 making it better than Bitwig? I'm beta testing it and it still misses lots of features, that Bitwig has: VST3, MPE, flexible interface, plugin crash protection & bridging, multi-clip edit for audio, hybrid tracks, tablet profile, external CV/gate integration... I could go on.

Don't get me wrong, I like Live a lot, but v10 is a catch-up release (high DPI, proper use of trackpad gestures, nested groups, save with undo - come on, it's 2017!), with some great additions (capture!), some so-so improvements ("integration" of M4L) and some major f**k ups (separation of content & automation modes).

EDIT: What I meant is, if Live 9.7 was - for specific person - better than Bitwig 2.2, then sure. Otherwise Live 10 doesn't really make a difference, IMO.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:52 am

telecharge wrote:Well, it seems to me that better and best will always be subjective, and never universally agreed upon.

For the record, I have nothing against Bitwig, and truly wish them success. I believe competition is good for the consumer, and it's great we have all these choices.

Absolutely

What is best, is the best for you.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:11 am

Kinh wrote:Bitwig 2 got their votes before Ableton 10 came out so it's understandable.
Affordability is clearly one of the reasons people voted but is the cheaper product better than the expensive one? Usually not... I remember FL taking 1st prize a lot.

And once the Ableton 10 beta was available... I purchased another year of Bitwig updates and took Ableton 9 Suite off my computer.

Live 10 aint much... particularly considering how long it has been since V9 shipped. One might expect significantly more change to the core application after 4-5 years. The days of Ableton being innovative with Live are pretty much over.

Bitwig on the other hand is fresh with creative new concepts. Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.

Chapelle · Post by **Chapelle** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:33 am

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:54 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.

It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:19 pm

Kinh wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.
It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.

One thing you can be pretty sure of in my experience is that 'Pro's' just use whatever is at hand and works for them, they are working, not doing polls as they really don't care what other people do/use

Both Bitwig and Live websites have large sections in them wheer 'pro's' say they use the software and coundnt live without....as this is a Bitwig thread, here is a list of 'pro's' who make music on Bitwg....https://www.bitwig.com/en/community/artists.html

I am sure there are many more as Bitwig is the best DAW CV sequencer/modulator, so if thats your bag then young or old, Bitwig should be the 'go to' tool.

Spencer Maddox · Post by **Spencer Maddox** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:25 pm

Kinh wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.
It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.

Well Of course more Pros Use Ableton, Ableton is not going anywhere as the EDM standard anytime yet, Ableton 10, even though I have my vex's with it, did enough to keep its users, now it being more by pros does not mean its better necessarily. I mean Pro Tools is still the standard in audio and Honestly I find cheaper options in Studio One, Logic, Samplitude and even Reaper to be...just better then it (I used PT for 2 years in School and HATED everything about it).
The Truth of the matter is you can make good music in both. Its all just personal preference. I agree with you that Bitwig 1 was rather boring. Aside from some cool niche goodies like the Sandboxing, But credit to Bitwigs team they have done a good job in V2 at differentiating themselves from an ableton clone to a unique independent DAW of their own with unique features. And in that they have given abletons legit competitor and as such have made both products better as they compete against eachother.

PS: For what it is worth Xilent uses Bitwig, Feed-Me uses it a bit, Cry-wolf uses it and I believe Deadmau5 himself plays with it from time to time, although Deadmau5 of course is an Ableton user for the most part.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:46 pm

Kinh wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.
It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.

A more interesting poll for you... because you believe it would validate you somehow. Of course there are many more Ableton users than Bitwig users. Duh... That is irrelevant to Bitwig deserving credit for the good work they have done over the past year. It also says nothing about all the ways that Bitwig is better than Live. And there are quite many.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:00 pm

They are all just jealous. It's a well deserved win. Congratulations.

Spencer Maddox · Post by **Spencer Maddox** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Spencer Maddox wrote:
Kinh wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.
It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.
Well Of course more Pros Use Ableton, Ableton is not going anywhere as the EDM standard anytime yet, Ableton 10, even though I have my vex's with it, did enough to keep its users, now it being used more by pros does not mean its better necessarily. I mean Pro Tools is still the standard in audio and Honestly I find cheaper options in Studio One, Logic, Samplitude and even Reaper to be...just better then it (I used PT for 2 years in School and HATED everything about it).
The Truth of the matter is you can make good music in both. Its all just personal preference. I agree with you that Bitwig 1 was rather boring. Aside from some cool niche goodies like the Sandboxing, But credit to Bitwigs team they have done a good job in V2 at differentiating themselves from an ableton clone to a unique independent DAW of their own with unique features. And in that they have given abletons legit competitor and as such have made both products better as they compete against eachother.

PS: For what it is worth Xilent uses Bitwig, Feed-Me uses it a bit, Cry-wolf uses it and I believe Deadmau5 himself plays with it from time to time, although Deadmau5 of course is an Ableton user for the most part.

simmo75 · Post by **simmo75** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm

antic604 wrote:
Kinh wrote:Bitwig 2 got their votes before Ableton 10 came out so it's understandable.
Affordability is clearly one of the reasons people voted but is the cheaper product better than the expensive one? Usually not... I remember FL taking 1st prize a lot.
How is release of Live 10 making it better than Bitwig? I'm beta testing it and it still misses lots of features, that Bitwig has: VST3, MPE, flexible interface, plugin crash protection & bridging, multi-clip edit for audio, hybrid tracks, tablet profile, external CV/gate integration... I could go on.

Don't get me wrong, I like Live a lot, but v10 is a catch-up release (high DPI, proper use of trackpad gestures, nested groups, save with undo - come on, it's 2017!), with some great additions (capture!), some so-so improvements ("integration" of M4L) and some major f**k ups (separation of content & automation modes).

EDIT: What I meant is, if Live 9.7 was - for specific person - better than Bitwig 2.2, then sure. Otherwise Live 10 doesn't really make a difference, IMO.

I totally agree with you.
I’m also beta testing Live 10 and it’s pretty disappointing given the amount of time it took for them to put it out.
No native MPE support in 2017?

Bitwig 2 has really surprised me with its work flow and it’s a more modern, functional capabilities.
It’s leaps and bounds ahead of Ableton now.

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Kinh wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Over the past year, Bitwig has developed a good chunk more than Live has in the same time and various of the new features are quite distinct and new. That is why Bitwig 2 should win DAW of the year.
It needed to because Bitwig 1 was pretty ordinary . I'm sure it was the same for Ableton 1.

New daws will appeal to younger users and it's generally younger people who vote in these sorts of 'popularity' polls. A more interesting poll would be how many pros use Bitwig vs Ableton.
A more interesting poll for you... because you believe it would validate you somehow. Of course there are many more Ableton users than Bitwig users. Duh... That is irrelevant to Bitwig deserving credit for the good work they have done over the past year. It also says nothing about all the ways that Bitwig is better than Live. And there are quite many.

Why is it so important to you and others which one's better? Seems people like you are the ones needing the validation.
I'm not really interested in which one's better, all I'm saying is what makes bitwig the best? Opinion polls. Who votes in these polls and why? The rest is self-explanatory.

Shit, I dont accept anything at face value, be it opinion polls or endorsements by pros on websites and neither should anyone. Welcome to the world of advertising. I dont drink softdrink cause attractive people drink it in the commercials or eat McDonalds because they never show fat people in their ads.

CM#215: Bitwig 2 DAW of the Year