Pro-L 2 by FabFilter

[dreamvoid]

There are no right tools when it comes to ISP clip detection. I use Apple RoundTripAAC because it's the only ISP clip meter that measure ISP clip "velocity" (# of clips over a period of time). A meter that tells me there was "a clip" is not useful - one predicted clip here or there is not going to break the bank. But a stream of clips is a sign of a problem.

There are several tools counting the number of overs.
I don't get your problem you have in this discussion. There is clipping audio and there are ISPs. When ISPs cause clippings in the D/A converter, these clippings are so to say a subset of clipping that can occur with digital audio. Audio can be 'perfectly' clipped somewhere in the chain and still don't produce any ISP clippings. You could record a fine track showing nowhere going to full scale dBfs and you could cause ISPs somewhere. The ISP metering can 'predict' the possibility of an ISP or several. As there are no perfect methods to achieve these results, the EBU norm gives a tolerance for this metering. This is what Fabfilter told fully correct. Therefore there are indeed "right tools" when it comes to ISPs - the clipping cannot be detected, because it is in the D/A conversion - the ISP "detection" is more a probablity, a prediction what could happen or likely will happen.

[plexuss]

There are several tools counting the number of overs.

Please do tell me which tools will count estiamted ISP clips? I'd love to have an alternative to RoundTripACC. I am on a mac so of course windows-only ones are no use but please do list any as well for others that are looking.

[Harry_HH]

New features in Pro-L2:

NEW - Extensive loudness metering with support for the EBU R128, ITU-R BS.1770-4 and ATSC A/85 standards
NEW - Surround support including Dolby Atmos 7.0.2 and 7.1.2 formats with flexible surround channel linking
NEW - Optional DC offset filter
NEW - External side chain triggering for stem mastering
NEW - Unity Gain option to easily listen to the effect of the current limiting at unity gain level
NEW - Audition Limiting option to listen to the difference between the input and output signal
IMPROVED - Eight different limiting algorithms, all with their own character and purpose
IMPROVED - Unique real-time level display with peak gain reduction labels and new innovative display modes
IMPROVED - Up to 32x linear-phase oversampling
IMPROVED - Highly accurate output and gain reduction metering including true peak metering
NEW - True peak limiting

Feel free to ignore the first 8 features.

So, How good are those "improved algrithms" (with oversampling options)? I´d like to hear user comments especially concerning the mastering /maximizer cases. I have owned the Pro-L 1 few years, but I have noticed that in most of the cases I end up using the Ozone 7 adv. maximizer IRC IV mode. Usually in the mastering chain I try different options, in addition to the two mentioned + KClip 2 Pro and IKM Stealth. 90 % of the cases I have used the Ozone maximizer IRC IV.
What suits best, depends on the material, too. Does the Pro-L 2 bring anything groundbreaking for the mastering/maximizing end result/sound?

[dreamvoid]

There are several tools counting the number of overs.

Please do tell me which tools will count estiamted ISP clips? I'd love to have an alternative to RoundTripACC. I am on a mac so of course windows-only ones are no use but please do list any as well for others that are looking.

For a start: Audition since at least CS 5 I think, WaveLab Pro 9.5 and in realtime -> Waves WLM and WLM+
I'm on Mac too (and also use Windows machines).

[plexuss]

There are several tools counting the number of overs.

Please do tell me which tools will count estiamted ISP clips? I'd love to have an alternative to RoundTripACC. I am on a mac so of course windows-only ones are no use but please do list any as well for others that are looking.

For a start: Audition since at least CS 5 I think, WaveLab Pro 9.5 and in realtime -> Waves WLM and WLM+ I'm on Mac too (and also use Windows machines).

I will take a look at these and see what the features are. Do you know off hand where in each of these tools the ISP/peak/clip counting feature is just to save me time hunting around and RTFM?

[dreamvoid]

There are several tools counting the number of overs.

Please do tell me which tools will count estiamted ISP clips? I'd love to have an alternative to RoundTripACC. I am on a mac so of course windows-only ones are no use but please do list any as well for others that are looking.

For a start: Audition since at least CS 5 I think, WaveLab Pro 9.5 and in realtime -> Waves WLM and WLM+ I'm on Mac too (and also use Windows machines).

I will take a look at these and see what the features are. Do you know off hand where in each of these tools the ISP/peak/clip counting feature is just to save me time hunting around and RTFM?

haha ... analyze functions and WLM has a little counter

[plexuss]

There are several tools counting the number of overs.

Please do tell me which tools will count estiamted ISP clips? I'd love to have an alternative to RoundTripACC. I am on a mac so of course windows-only ones are no use but please do list any as well for others that are looking.

For a start: Audition since at least CS 5 I think, WaveLab Pro 9.5 and in realtime -> Waves WLM and WLM+ I'm on Mac too (and also use Windows machines).

I will take a look at these and see what the features are. Do you know off hand where in each of these tools the ISP/peak/clip counting feature is just to save me time hunting around and RTFM?

haha ... analyze functions and WLM has a little counter

For WLM, it appears the counter is for registering # of overs over the set loudness setting, but not ISP's or ISP clips. From the manal for the counters under the short term meter "Overs Displays the number of times the signal exceeds the specified Short Term Max value indicated in the settings panel. " Where is the ISP/clip counter?

Here is some data comparing AURoundTripAAC and Adobe Audition. I ran the same file through both and the results are:

RoundTrip: 564 / 745 Audition: 550 / 702
Difference between RoundTrip and Audition: -2.5% / -5.8%

That's not too bad I don't think. Not enough to write off either of them as being inaccurate.

Screen Shot 2017-12-11 at 3.58.16 PM.png

[dangayle]

You can do all sorts of stuff with ISPs in iZotope RX. For instance: http://izotope-rx.livejournal.com/1760.html

[Liero]

New features in Pro-L2:

NEW - Extensive loudness metering with support for the EBU R128, ITU-R BS.1770-4 and ATSC A/85 standards
NEW - Surround support including Dolby Atmos 7.0.2 and 7.1.2 formats with flexible surround channel linking
NEW - Optional DC offset filter
NEW - External side chain triggering for stem mastering
NEW - Unity Gain option to easily listen to the effect of the current limiting at unity gain level
NEW - Audition Limiting option to listen to the difference between the input and output signal
IMPROVED - Eight different limiting algorithms, all with their own character and purpose
IMPROVED - Unique real-time level display with peak gain reduction labels and new innovative display modes
IMPROVED - Up to 32x linear-phase oversampling
IMPROVED - Highly accurate output and gain reduction metering including true peak metering
NEW - True peak limiting

Feel free to ignore the first 8 features.

So, How good are those "improved algrithms" (with oversampling options)? I´d like to hear user comments especially concerning the mastering /maximizer cases. I have owned the Pro-L 1 few years, but I have noticed that in most of the cases I end up using the Ozone 7 adv. maximizer IRC IV mode. Usually in the mastering chain I try different options, in addition to the two mentioned + KClip 2 Pro and IKM Stealth. 90 % of the cases I have used the Ozone maximizer IRC IV.
What suits best, depends on the material, too. Does the Pro-L 2 bring anything groundbreaking for the mastering/maximizing end result/sound?

Why don't you demo it and listen for yourself - sounds like you haven't even done that yet?

[dreamvoid]

For WLM, it appears the counter is for registering # of overs over the set loudness setting, but not ISP's or ISP clips. From the manal for the counters under the short term meter "Overs Displays the number of times the signal exceeds the specified Short Term Max value indicated in the settings panel. " Where is the ISP/clip counter?

You're right, that was an error from my side in a hurry. I use WLM+ nearly daily and I never watch these overs - they're not ver useful to me. There is also "unders". I have extensive, realtime metering here running on a separate machine. Sorry for the confusion but Izotope Insight has clipped sample count on the peak meters. I cannot find info about being them related to ISPs. I don't think counting the samples is such a biggie anyway.

[pheeleep]

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/bitter/

Free

[mutantdog]

Question regarding ISPs and ReplayGain then...

Say I have a lossless audio file with ISP overshoots of around 2dB, I have the exact same audio file, only rendered with the volume reduced by -2dB. After applying ReplayGain my media player (Foobar2000) will output them at the exact same volume. So in this example is there any real difference betwen the two? Surely for me they should sound exactly the same, right?

[Harry_HH]

New features in Pro-L2:

NEW - Extensive loudness metering with support for the EBU R128, ITU-R BS.1770-4 and ATSC A/85 standards
NEW - Surround support including Dolby Atmos 7.0.2 and 7.1.2 formats with flexible surround channel linking
NEW - Optional DC offset filter
NEW - External side chain triggering for stem mastering
NEW - Unity Gain option to easily listen to the effect of the current limiting at unity gain level
NEW - Audition Limiting option to listen to the difference between the input and output signal
IMPROVED - Eight different limiting algorithms, all with their own character and purpose
IMPROVED - Unique real-time level display with peak gain reduction labels and new innovative display modes
IMPROVED - Up to 32x linear-phase oversampling
IMPROVED - Highly accurate output and gain reduction metering including true peak metering
NEW - True peak limiting

Feel free to ignore the first 8 features.

So, How good are those "improved algrithms" (with oversampling options)? I´d like to hear user comments especially concerning the mastering /maximizer cases. I have owned the Pro-L 1 few years, but I have noticed that in most of the cases I end up using the Ozone 7 adv. maximizer IRC IV mode. Usually in the mastering chain I try different options, in addition to the two mentioned + KClip 2 Pro and IKM Stealth. 90 % of the cases I have used the Ozone maximizer IRC IV.
What suits best, depends on the material, too. Does the Pro-L 2 bring anything groundbreaking for the mastering/maximizing end result/sound?

Why don't you demo it and listen for yourself - sounds like you haven't even done that yet?

Isn´t one of the functions for these threads to share experience?
Yes, I haven´t ,even, done that, yet. So long list of plugins waiting for a demo.
Obviously you have, why don´t tell what do you think.

[plexuss]

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/bitter/

Free

Thanks. Looked promising. I ran the same file as in the post below with RoundTrip and Audition and Bitter did not report any sample or ISP peaks. I contacted Stillwell and asked if Bitter user the ITU spec for ISP detection and they said no and offered no rationale for why their approach is the way to go. So Bitter is off the list.

[plexuss]

Question regarding ISPs and ReplayGain then...

Say I have a lossless audio file with ISP overshoots of around 2dB, I have the exact same audio file, only rendered with the volume reduced by -2dB. After applying ReplayGain my media player (Foobar2000) will output them at the exact same volume. So in this example is there any real difference betwen the two? Surely for me they should sound exactly the same, right?

It depends on the DAC and the analogue design. Lets say that the analogue section does not have the headroom to accommodate the 2dB overs of the first file. Then, it will clip. If the 2dB gain is added to the second file then it will also clip because it has to pass through the same analogue section that doesn't have the headroom (whether or not the gain is added in the digital domain or the analogue domain).

There is no free lunch.