KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:21 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
rardier wrote:Hello, i only used cubase so i can t compare, but with the introduction of the 64bit engine, a test was made by the french website audiofanzine between the same mix made with the 32bit and 64bit engine, and the 2 mixdown with opposite phase wasnt null, so sound between 2 daw can differ at least if the audio engine resolution differs ... but to say that a daw sounds much better than another one seems to bit exagerated.. ( i tested the same project in cubase 32 bit audio engine and 64bit ...to be honest i can feel a difference more than i can hear it if that make a sense).
Did they use any plugins or processing or just audio files going straight through the mixer

Frankly, i have doubts that they're such amateurs that they didn't consider this.

rardier · Post by **rardier** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:58 pm

It wasnt the 32 or 64 bit build (like x64 vs x86) it was the new 64 bit audio engine of cubase . Even if you were in x64 version of cubase the audio engine was only 32bit until the release of cubase 9.5, in cubase 9.5 now you can switch between 32 bit or 64 bit .
The test was made with plugins .

rardier · Post by **rardier** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:04 pm

But frankly you shouldn t care about that, the differences are sooooo light.

confusedmuse · Post by **confusedmuse** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:53 pm

funky lime wrote:I'm convinced that the people who are stressing about DAWs not sounding the same are probably making shitty music anyway, and are just trying to overcompensate by having the "best" tools.

The best tools indeed help to make shitty music sound better. Most of modern music depends on it.
My own music isn't even modern, but shitty as well and it also benefits a lot from good equipment.

confusedmuse · Post by **confusedmuse** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:22 am

mcbpete wrote:
rardier wrote:a test was made by the french website audiofanzine between the same mix made with the 32bit and 64bit engine, and the 2 mixdown with opposite phase wasnt null
Wait ... were they comparing 32bit and 64bit builds of the same DAW and claiming there was a difference in the outputted render? If so ....... oh boy

No, they weren't. It started with the comment from a user that Samplitude is one of the best sounding DAWs.
The OP was the reaction to this.
Fact is - there *were* differences many years ago.
Just download FL Studio v2 or 3 and make a comparison master with any modern DAW. You won't believe how much different it will sound. Now the question is, since *when* exactly all became equal? What was the initiator? And does it really apply to *any* DAW out there?

Russell Grand · Post by **Russell Grand** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:30 am

FL Studio v2 or 3 was out 15+ years ago!

confusedmuse · Post by **confusedmuse** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:43 am

Russell Grand wrote:FL Studio v2 or 3 was out 15+ years ago!

Read again... There were some questions related to this.

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:53 am

confusedmuse wrote: Fact is - there *were* differences many years ago.
Just download FL Studio v2 or 3 and make a comparison master with any modern DAW. You won't believe how much different it will sound. ?

Why don't YOU do this and provide us audio files ?
It's you claiming this, so the proof is on you.

Also providing the project files of course, so anyone can replicate.

kbaccki · Post by **kbaccki** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:00 am

I've always used the 20-40% Rule. Never fails.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:01 am

No_Use wrote:
confusedmuse wrote: Fact is - there *were* differences many years ago.
Just download FL Studio v2 or 3 and make a comparison master with any modern DAW. You won't believe how much different it will sound. ?
Why don't YOU do this and provide us audio files ?
It's you claiming this, so the proof is on you.

Also providing the project files of course, so anyone can replicate.

There is no evidence this individual understands what a proof here would be. Every time it's 'it sounds different'. It's a fact, it sounded different.

So, same audio file, render it in the two things which sound different with absolutely every setting identical, nota bene Pan Law, no anything added, from precisely the same beginning/end, and if they do not null you have your proof.

confusedmuse · Post by **confusedmuse** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:52 am

No_Use wrote:
confusedmuse wrote: Fact is - there *were* differences many years ago.
Just download FL Studio v2 or 3 and make a comparison master with any modern DAW. You won't believe how much different it will sound. ?
Why don't YOU do this and provide us audio files ?
It's you claiming this, so the proof is on you.

Also providing the project files of course, so anyone can replicate.

Seriously? Don't you remember how strange it sounded back then? I agree that you hardly can find any differences with current DAWs. But FL 3? Alright, if I find time, I'll do a comparison. This one will be obvious at least.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:51 am

I always felt samples sounded worse played back through the mixing algorithms in trackers (including Renoise), compared to playing them straight through a two channel sound editor (like Sound Forge). I thought it was just volume, but adjusting for volume didn't help. I posted about it to the Renoise forum and was challenged to do null tests, rather than anyone reproducing the example I gave (using Renoise's tools to create a sample instrument from a VST). I didn't have much motivation to get into the issue by that point; I'm just not that into trackers anymore.

As for DAWs... I experienced a similar thing with Reason's samplers, but in that case I think volume was indeed having a big impact. Problem was, i couldn't amplify the sample playback enough to compensate without the sampler clipping. Didn't know what else to do on that test.

But otherwise, I've not noticed this problem playing samples in the audio tracks of DAWs. It's just samplers and resampling where I notice it, so I presume resampling math is the problem. I've played with at least five DAWs and didn't notice any qualitative difference in sound overall. If it's there, it wasn't enough to matter to me. I did notice more headroom with Sonar's 64-bit mixing engine and I'll be happy to have that headroom again when I get to the current Logic X that now has the same. Granted, Logic's way of mixing, even with the 32-bit engine I'm still using, seems to handle overloads more pleasantly to my ears. I notice less overt digital clipping than I did on Sonar when exceeding the limits there (or anywhere else for that matter). I've read people comment that Logic mixes with some method to emulate analog mixers' response or something... (??)

Fruity Loops started as a sort of tracker, didn't it? I ran some ancient version once and it sounded like a tracker to me. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the early FL engine had lesser quality sound. Current versions don't seem to, as I have played with FL Studio and felt it sounded nothing like a tracker. It's just another DAW as far as I'm concerned. It has some neat sound generators and they don't sound like a hollow resampled thing to me at all.

So, for today's software, I don't think this constant argument about DAW sound quality has any value. I still don't like how Renoise plays samples. If that's all on me, subjectively, so be it; I don't care to use trackers anyway.

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:27 pm

confusedmuse wrote: Seriously?

Yes.

confusedmuse wrote: Alright, if I find time, I'll do a comparison. This one will be obvious at least.

Alright, I'm waiting.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:33 pm

must be nearly xmas if were doing this again.
best go shopping...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:39 pm

I find it interesting that "null" is mostly "null up to -80 dB". So, if you can't hear it, it's identical. Well, not really, is it? If it was, it'd null completely. Obviously, there are differences.

do all daws sound the same...again