Best VST instrument for relaxation, Ambient, sounds

[egbert101]

<delete>

[ghettosynth]

However, this album is another example of a great use of effects (as has been said numerous times), which are more important when creating such deep textures than state-of-the-art filters!

A: Effects are important but whether they're more important depends on exactly which "deep textures" that you're talking about. You aren't qualified to determine whether or not they're MORE important for other people.

From an interview with Steve Roach.

I have been using vintage analogue gear all along in some basic ways as I consider the Oberheims the core to my sound and I never let go of these. They have been a part of most every release since the early 80’s.

B: You don't seem to realize that anyplace that there is a filter, i.e., in numerous effects, the quality of the DSP coding matters. I'm not more convinced that Spectrasonics can compete there than they can in their synth filters.

C: Omnisphere really has little edge here over something like Kontakt. In fact, I'd much prefer Kontakt because of the ability to use proper multisamples.

So, sure, Omnisphere is fine for some things, so is Absynth, but if you need (or simply want) great filters, or cutting edge effects, and there are plenty of examples of great ambient where that's true, then they are not going to cut it.

For an example of what I'm talking about look no further than Phasis. If you want to see what might be, in some part, the inspiration, look in Reaktor's studio effects. Phasers need ZDF filters, it makes a difference. When it comes to effects, you bet, the DSP matters and you absolutely need fancy modern filters.

Nobody said that you need such filters for every ambient track. A lot of my own stuff is little more than piano and reverb. A lot of it never sees a synth at all, it's just processed samples. You don't need anything specific to create ambient, however, there is nothing that is necessarily excluded just because you don't favor it. Real analog has been used in ambient since the beginning, Steve tells you above that he uses real analog. If you aren't going to use real analog, then sorry, I disagree that the DSP coding doesn't matter. Omnisphere can't hold a candle to Uhe synths for great analog pads.

I choose Absynth because it is interesting otherwise, but I recognize that it is VERY outdated. There are only a few reasons that I'd ever choose Omnisphere, you certainly don't need it for a few tinkley bells and a didge, but sorry, it is outdated. Not so much as Absynth, but it's nowhere near current technology and it doesn't sound like an analogue synth.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

However, if I were to focus on synths only, I'd be looking for instruments which use sample+synthesis. In the past I'd always recommend Alchemy as the first choice, but since it is no longer available on the PC platform, and is locked to Logic on Mac, it is no longer a viable option for most people.

Which is such a pity because I'd say Yuroun's Alchemy banks are some of the closest to this sort of aesthetic.

His were my favourite sounds in Alchemy

[VariKusBrainZ]

The new 112db Mikroncascade is made for ambient

[ghettosynth]

The new 112db Mikroncascade is made for ambient

Clearly, I haven't checked it out in detail yet, what is it actually doing, do you know?

[wagtunes]

The new 112db Mikroncascade is made for ambient

Clearly, I haven't checked it out in detail yet, what is it actually doing, do you know?

There are 8 controls.

Input
Feedback
Time
Density
Spin
Tone
Output
Mix

Essentially, it's a delay. By turning Density all the way up, it makes the sound source go on forever. The other controls introduce slight variations in the playback.

It's a subtle effect but it will work with anything as the demo uses just a sine wave.

[VariKusBrainZ]

It's a subtle effect but it will work with anything as the demo uses just a sine wave.

Its far from subtle

[wagtunes]

It's a subtle effect but it will work with anything as the demo uses just a sine wave.

Its far from subtle

Well, to me that's subtle. So everything is relative

[ghettosynth]

The new 112db Mikroncascade is made for ambient

Clearly, I haven't checked it out in detail yet, what is it actually doing, do you know?

There are 8 controls.

Input
Feedback
Time
Density
Spin
Tone
Output
Mix

Essentially, it's a delay. By turning Density all the way up, it makes the sound source go on forever. The other controls introduce slight variations in the playback.

It's a subtle effect but it will work with anything as the demo uses just a sine wave.

I was going to edit my post. It's bit more than just a "delay" in that it's a delay "network," but they don't give much detail on what the different "tunings" are. Looking at the manual now.

[Daags]

how does it compare to valhalla shimmer or eventide's blackhole ? more or less generates the same sounds, no ?

[Michael L]

Ambiverb: anything in>ambient out.

[.jon]

I find it awkward to read so many comments in the vein "lots of reverb/fx mangling on anything = ambient". Sure, reverb is essential in creating a sense of space, but so it is for any genre. The tails are just longer, but squeezing whatever random noodlings into a mile-long fx chain doesn't really result in particularly interesting music with long term value. It makes me wonder if these commenters make much ambient music, or like, at all.

And what comes to KVR's endless and pointless filter fetishism, it's just one part of a synth. I have synths with standard old DSP filters, I have synths with cutting edge ZDF filters, I have real analogs and one of m favourite synths doesn't even have a filter in it's signal path. I use them all together, and the idea of ranking them by their filters is just absurd as it has no connection whatsoever with their value as musical instruments. Filters are overrated.

[himalaya]

@Ghettosynth,

Apparently you wanted to put me on your foe list to stop seeing my posts, so why do you respond again? You're such a stubborn person.

However, this album is another example of a great use of effects (as has been said numerous times), which are more important when creating such deep textures than state-of-the-art filters!

A: Effects are important but whether they're more important depends on exactly which "deep textures" that you're talking about. You aren't qualified to determine whether or not they're MORE important for other people.

It's very clear which 'deep textures' I'm talking about. I was referring to all those sounds from The Magnificent Void album. It's in the quote you grabbed! Without this extensive use of effects we wouldn't have this album. Period.

And why this tone again, of whether I am 'qualified' or not? You see how easy you fall into this aggressive style? You are full of this passive aggressive posturing. Then when you get called out on this during the course of the thread you protest "it's not about me" and so on. You make it about yourself by your incessant attempts at ridiculing others.

But hey! Maybe I am not qualified to say anything. Maybe I'm just a speck of dust. A figment of your imagination....or maybe I have worked in the music business long enough to know a few things and be in a position to share them on a forum and call out sock-puppet-like nonsense when I see it (ie: Omnisphere filters not of good quality to create ambient pads and textures.... ).

From an interview with Steve Roach.

I have been using vintage analogue gear all along in some basic ways as I consider the Oberheims the core to my sound and I never let go of these. They have been a part of most every release since the early 80’s.

Great! But it's of no consequence in this topic. All that analog goodness is lost in deep washes of reverb, delays, chorus, phasers, pitch-shifters and more reverb...at least on that album which I referred to. The Oberheim sound has nothing to do with what goes on in that album. He could have used a ROMpler as well, and probably did use ROMplers for that record, to a great effect too (no pun intended).

B: You don't seem to realize that anyplace that there is a filter, i.e., in numerous effects, the quality of the DSP coding matters. I'm not more convinced that Spectrasonics can compete there than they can in their synth filters.

Maybe basing your judgements on 'conviction' and not on the actual, practical use of Omnisphere is not wise? Since you don't have Omsniphere, nor use it, why comment on it? You are quick to call out people if you deem that they don't know something, and yet here you are doing the same.

C: Omnisphere really has little edge here over something like Kontakt. In fact, I'd much prefer Kontakt because of the ability to use proper multisamples.

You see? You can measure your words and be civil. Maybe one day, your replies will be all like this....maybe you will even apologise for your past attacks? Who knows?

I'm indifferent when it comes to comparing such synths or samplers. And I agree with you (you see, how nice I am?) that sometimes it is nice to have the ability to either, a) roll your own multi-samples like it's possible in Kontakt or b) buy some amazing multi-sampled stuff from 3rd parties (@all, get that Luftrum 'Luminaris' library for Kontakt. It's all you need for ambient!). But sometimes it is great to use multi-samples in Omnisphere which are equally as good, and often very unique, which coupled with the full-blown synthesis engine in Omni (which Kontakt lacks) can offer a different set of timbres than Kontakt can. And vice versa.

For an example of what I'm talking about look no further than Phasis. If you want to see what might be, in some part, the inspiration, look in Reaktor's studio effects. Phasers need ZDF filters, it makes a difference. When it comes to effects, you bet, the DSP matters and you absolutely need fancy modern filters.

Plenty of amazing effects have been made without any ZDF filters. Sure it's great to have the latest tech available in our effects, but not having ZDF filters in phasers and similar will not prevent anyone from making big gorgeous whooshes of sound. In fact, the audio example I posted pages ago uses a bog standard phaser in Warmverb and to my ears it provided all that I wanted from a phaser. No doubt, your reply may be: "but you are not qualified to say what phasers we should be using or not...blah blah blah"

Omnisphere can't hold a candle to Uhe synths for great analog pads.

Sure, but that's not what Omnisphere is about, equally, none of the U-he synths can do what Omni can with its multi-layered sample+synthesis stuff, for obvious reasons. And it's all good, these differences are great to have, choice and all that, right? Although Omni does have some great samples of analog gear which do sound amazing, so it can too.

We choose synths on their strengths, but the initial point of contention, your statement that Omnisphere filters are no good because they use old code, was just baloney since we don't need any state-of-the-art filters to make pads and textures which will be swimming in layers of reverb, chorus, delay and what not. It's a fact. Accept it!

I choose Absynth because it is interesting otherwise, but I recognize that it is VERY outdated. There are only a few reasons that I'd ever choose Omnisphere, you certainly don't need it for a few tinkley bells and a didge, but sorry, it is outdated. Not so much as Absynth, but it's nowhere near current technology and it doesn't sound like an analogue synth.

[/quote]

Personally, I'm not really concerned which synth is more outdated than another as I try to use synths for their strengths. For example, Z3ta+ is outdated, but it can do certain 'digital' sounds like noting else to this day!

Certainly, Omsnisphere is deep enough in its synthesis department to always sound fresh. Creative use of some of its more interesting samples and layering with its synthesis engines can give truly interesting results. I think this is all about creativity here. Kontakt, Absynth, or Omni, or anything else...can do it. It's up to us. (and not fancy schmancy new filters, at least for "relaxing" ambient music).

I wrote this post in good faith. It's time to show that you can reply without any condescending tone, should you have a burning desire to reply.

[elassi]

I find it awkward to read so many comments in the vein "lots of reverb/fx mangling on anything = ambient".

[ghettosynth]

I find it awkward to read so many comments in the vein "lots of reverb/fx mangling on anything = ambient". Sure, reverb is essential in creating a sense of space, but so it is for any genre. The tails are just longer, but squeezing whatever random noodlings into a mile-long fx chain doesn't really result in particularly interesting music with long term value. It makes me wonder if these commenters make much ambient music, or like, at all.

Nobody said that you should "squeeze whatever random noodlings." You are projecting what you want to read. I also didn't hear of anyone using a "mile long FX chain."

Further, the OP didn't ask about music that has "long term value." That's your choice of label that is by no means a constraint that anyone else has necessarily imposed.

And what comes to KVR's endless and pointless filter fetishism, it's just one part of a synth. I have synths with standard old DSP filters, I have synths with cutting edge ZDF filters, I have real analogs and one of m favourite synths doesn't even have a filter in it's signal path.

So? Many synths do, and, more to the point, so do many effects. It's a reflection of the state of the art in the synth which absolutely reflects the synth quality and that has nothing to do with what you choose to use or like.

Really, this drama is just about Omnisphere users being offended that not everyone respects their overpriced bombastic toy as being superior. I made a comment with respect to the technology in the synth in support of another reader's perspective that the quality isn't necessarily there and that's my opinion.

Like it or not, that's just a statement of fact and there's no reason to be offended by it. If you like old synths, good for you, but some of us value whether a musical tool is on the cutting edge. Feel free to talk about old synths, but I'm going to feel free to point out that they're old.