Polarized opinions about Reaper

[jancivil]

That could also be VEP's problem... do they officially support Reaper, even?

never saw a VSL rep say it didn't, to REAPER users at their forum
Does REAPER support VE Pro?

So you have anecdotes where REAPER is not as stable as other things, apparently indicating use case scenarios may differ. Then there's your anecdotal evidence which trumps all, clearly. So.

I think Digriz has the truth: DAWs are rock-solid until the user hits on a combination of things in a use case that amounts to the red button.

For me with Cubase it was VSL Master Equalizer, too much interaction via the mouse with its interface during playback. A matter of too much math for the situation. Which does not crash Cubase in later versions. NB., this was the singular case that crashed Cubase 5.5.3 in years.

I have no horse in the race, it's a matter of shit logic that drove me to type here.

[jancivil]

And, I'm reminded of REAmote which never worked once in my case. Crashed REAPER every time I tried to connect. So one may ask: do they not know how to code an Ethernet/LAN/CAT 6 connection under OSX? Does it work now, do you know?

It's perfect though, isn't it. JUST SAYIN'/thread

[DrFolder]

Personally I've never had a stability problem with Reaper. The only issue I've had recently is with Loom and Loom 2 with it's gui scaling issue on hi dpi screens and I have that same problem in Reason 10 and Flstudio but not Renoise. Stability is a major factor why I use Reaper. I can confirm also that Leaving large projects open for a few days works fine, It just initializes the soundcard and reconnects the ilok and it's good to go. When trying this with Cubase in the past froze my system (Cubase 8
) forcing me to restart.

[Robert Randolph]

And, I'm reminded of REAmote which never worked once in my case. Crashed REAPER every time I tried to connect. So one may ask: do they not know how to code an Ethernet/LAN/CAT 6 connection under OSX? Does it work now, do you know?

It's perfect though, isn't it. JUST SAYIN'/thread

I use ReaMote every single day that I use Reaper (which is every day, except this month ).

I'm on macOS and have never had a crash while using it.

[BMoore]

That could also be VEP's problem... do they officially support Reaper, even?

never saw a VSL rep say it didn't, to REAPER users at their forum
Does REAPER support VE Pro?

So you have anecdotes where REAPER is not as stable as other things, apparently indicating use case scenarios may differ. Then there's your anecdotal evidence which trumps all, clearly. So.

I think Digriz has the truth: DAWs are rock-solid until the user hits on a combination of things in a use case that amounts to the red button.

For me with Cubase it was VSL Master Equalizer, too much interaction via the mouse with its interface during playback. A matter of too much math for the situation. Which does not crash Cubase in later versions. NB., this was the singular case that crashed Cubase 5.5.3 in years.

I have no horse in the race, it's a matter of shit logic that drove me to type here.

There's always someone with an anecdote of something that doesn't work, no matter what it is. It can be their hardware, setup, etc.
But take away non-compatible and unstable plugins, Reaper is rock solid. I'm not sure you can say that about all DAWs.

[SJ_Digriz]

But take away non-compatible and unstable plugins, Reaper is rock solid. I'm not sure you can say that about all DAWs.

I can. The ones I use work without crashing .. no more or less than Reaper, which is just one of several I use.

[BMoore]

But take away non-compatible and unstable plugins, Reaper is rock solid. I'm not sure you can say that about all DAWs.

I can. The ones I use work without crashing .. no more or less than Reaper, which is just one of several I use.

But you don't use "all DAWs".

[ghettosynth]

And, I'm reminded of REAmote which never worked once in my case. Crashed REAPER every time I tried to connect. So one may ask: do they not know how to code an Ethernet/LAN/CAT 6 connection under OSX? Does it work now, do you know?

It's perfect though, isn't it. JUST SAYIN'/thread

I use ReaMote every single day that I use Reaper (which is every day, except this month ).

I'm on macOS and have never had a crash while using it.

I believe that she's confusing ReaMote with ReaStream. They work differently. ReaMote is for offloading FX processing onto another computer. It works in some instances if you have two machines with a common architecture and the plugins that you want to offload are functioning on both machines.

ReaStream is for sending streams of audio across the network and there is a known issue with receiving streams on recent versions of OS/X. I don't remember the details but it has to do with something relating to the network implementation on OS/X.

I can't find the post that I found at some point that talks about the details, but, I can confirm that it also does not work for me.

However, you can send just fine from OS/X and the audio will be received fine by a Windows machine.

That said, this has nothing to do with "stability." This is a bug and should be fixed, but it doesn't cause instability in Reaper, it just doesn't work on modern macs for, IIRC, almost everyone, but not everyone.

Back to ReaMote. It works, after a fashion. It works better for some things than others, but it is definitely not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, again, it's not about stability, it either works, or it doesn't get the job done, but it doesn't crash Reaper. For me, VEP is a much better solution for this problem but it works somewhat differently.

This is almost certainly very old code (ReaStream), the functionality has been around forever and the complaints date back to Mountain Lion days. As much as I'd like to see it fixed, I'd rather it not be mucked with if it's going to make Reaper unstable. I feel the same way about Ninjam. I use it a lot and the Reaper client has so many annoying limitations, but, any alternative is far less stable.

[ghettosynth]

But take away non-compatible and unstable plugins, Reaper is rock solid. I'm not sure you can say that about all DAWs.

I can. The ones I use work without crashing .. no more or less than Reaper, which is just one of several I use.

So your testing does not reveal the bugs that lead to instability, that doesn't mean that those bugs, hence, that instability in a statistical sense doesn't exist. Many people, for example, reported the "Cubase crashes on close with project open" bug.

Moreover, we do get to count the number of times that some plugin interacting with a DAW causes THEM to crash. The DAW that can tolerate more deviant plugins can certainly be credited as the most stable in the face of plugin deviations from spec.

Further, I wouldn't give Steinberg the default nod on compliance to the spec just because they wrote it. Their own SDKs have had unfixed bugs for years, e.g. the VST Module Architecture spec. So, when a plugin crashes Cubase, I don't assume that it's the plugin's fault, it very well could be sloppy programming by Steinberg.

For me, across many systems over many years with common use cases, Reaper has been the most stable DAW that I've used. It's not my preferred DAW for many use cases, but it has been the most stable.

Not all observations about Reaper can be attributed to "fanaticism" just because they don't align with the observations of non-fans.

[Romantique Tp]

Further, I wouldn't give Steinberg the default nod on compliance to the spec just because they wrote it. Their own SDKs have had unfixed bugs for years, e.g. the VST Module Architecture spec. So, when a plugin crashes Cubase, I don't assume that it's the plugin's fault, it very well could be sloppy programming by Steinberg.

Wow so the million years old VST MA SDK has bugs? Something that even Steinberg themselves probably don't use internally?

[ghettosynth]

Further, I wouldn't give Steinberg the default nod on compliance to the spec just because they wrote it. Their own SDKs have had unfixed bugs for years, e.g. the VST Module Architecture spec. So, when a plugin crashes Cubase, I don't assume that it's the plugin's fault, it very well could be sloppy programming by Steinberg.

Wow so the million years old VST MA SDK has bugs? Something that even Steinberg themselves probably don't use internally?

You can respond like a "fanatic" if you choose, but you didn't refute my point that defects with plugin interactions may very well be sloppy programming by Steinberg.

You've simply acknowledged my point that Steinberg has written and released code with significant bugs and, moreover, that bugs caused by compliance to a spec may not, in fact, be the responsibility of a developer but rather Steinberg's problem, if, after all, as you say, they don't even use their own public specs internally.

[lolilol1975]

Reaper is fine and all, if you have the time and patience. What it lacks is proper UI and workflow design, some say that's because you can make what you want of it but I disagree, yes you can customize and develop your own workflow but it is not coherent in the way Live, Bitwig, Reason, Studio One, Logic or cubase are. The development has totally ignored UI and workflow, leaving it to the user.

It lacks direction, it is kind of all tools together because it is possible to implement it. For many who know what they want it may be a blessing but for others it just becomes a mess.

There are two kinds of users: the ones who like to follow a workflow, supposed to be well thought out, that is designed and imposed by the tool, and the ones who like when the tool doesn't impose a workflow and lets them customize their own workflow. Reaper caters to this category. If you are of this category, you'll love Reaper, if you are of the former category, you will hate it.

[lolilol1975]

What's JS?

As for the plugin quality: Never used them. Being a fan of Toneboosters myself so I think you're good with using them no matter what host you use.

I am also a big fan of ToneBoosters (being the author of the thread that I believe made them popular on KVR), and I disagree. I indeed prefer TB almost every time, but several Reaper stock plugins and even a few JS FX, while not stellar, are decent enough to be used in production. You said Reacomp, but also of course ReaEQ, or ReaGate, ReaDelay among others, do the job. Indeed the user interface is their main drawback, but as for sound quality, they are pretty decent. Most JS FX are half baked unfortunately, but some of them actually sound pretty good.

[ghettosynth]

Reaper is fine and all, if you have the time and patience. What it lacks is proper UI and workflow design, some say that's because you can make what you want of it but I disagree, yes you can customize and develop your own workflow but it is not coherent in the way Live, Bitwig, Reason, Studio One, Logic or cubase are. The development has totally ignored UI and workflow, leaving it to the user.

It lacks direction, it is kind of all tools together because it is possible to implement it. For many who know what they want it may be a blessing but for others it just becomes a mess.

There are two kinds of users: the ones who like to follow a workflow, supposed to be well thought out, that is designed and imposed by the tool, and the ones who like when the tool doesn't impose a workflow and lets them customize their own workflow. Reaper caters to this category. If you are of this category, you'll love Reaper, if you are of the former category, you will hate it.

People say this, but what does it mean? I don't customize anything in Reaper that's notable. I have a few options set differently than the default but nothing to write home about. I have some custom default projects that are different on different machines, but that's not really unique either, I do the same thing in all of my hosts.

I really don't get what people are talking about when they criticize the U/I and workflow beyond the mid-2000s-ish look of the thing. I don't like the weird icons, I think that they could hire someone to do a better job with their graphic design elements. Some things are in a bit of a weird place, like controlling how midi routes through a chain of plugins, but, with other hosts you don't even have some of that kind of control.

What exactly is it that slows people down? I'm asking honestly here, I really don't get what the challenge is?

[lolilol1975]

My experience with Reaper since the day dot it came out is that, it's always been buggy and crash prone, which has been compounded with a convoluted, intimidating interface with huge bloated menu's within menu's (Yes you can configure them but that's not the point). There's lack of clear development, it's ad-hoc and unstructured, built upon 17 years of dated legacy code. It's a poor man's daw with big holes in it... Lack of core instruments, quality FX with modern GUI's is one of the biggest aspects, that has always turned me off from using Reaper and taking it seriously and is why I rather spend the time and effort using more established daws from the bigger players that do, and from developers that listen and understand what an effective learning and accessible workflow curve is.

Buggy? Crash-prone? Is that your attempt at irony?

It is buggy and more crash-prone than any other DAW except Tracktion/Waveform out of the one's I've used or tried. They believe in-house testing never finds all the bugs, so they don't do it. It's tested voluntarily by a small group of fans instead. In Reaper's case, this has proven to be less efficient at providing solid development than the conventional way. It's two steps forward, one step back, hence the frantic release pace.

INTRANCER has many solid and true points, but on the other hand Reaper has lots of very functional stuff that others don't and often even implemented cleverly.

It has a generous demo scheme and for a reason, if you're considering it do take the time and dive deep into it before committing completely. It is an indie project by a minimal team who mainly develop the software for themselves, and as such it's benefits and shortcomings compared to large scale software projects.

Absolute Bull. Reaper has never been the cause of a crash on my computer. Like ever. Probably the most stable non-trivial piece of software I've ever seen. The only time it crashed on me, it was the excellent Sanford reverb plugin. I contacted Leslie Sanford and he fixed the issue in a week-end. in my experience, there are two possible sources of crash in Reaper:
1) buggy plugins
2) buggy driver/broken hardware

Saying it's an "indie" project is ridiculous; I've been a software developer for 18 years and I've yet to see more professional and efficient developers than Cockos. These guys would be a godsend in any company.