No demo, refund and even NFR of some orchestral libraries - is that legal?

[maschinelf]

And in one paragraph you demonstrated why such companies would employ such practices. Why on Dog's flat-earth should any company have to lose time and money because you have no idea about due dilligence?

Everything you needed to know about what this library is, or isn't, is at the end of a quick internet search. And if you couldn't find the answer, you could have just asked.

Perhaps you should stop wasting everybody's time, and work out how you might incorporate a top-class scoring library into your workflow

This .. the sense of entitlement so prevalent nowadays is downright suffocating.

[poshook]

If you read the manual, it says this:

ALBION ONE ORCHESTRA
The first folder is Albion ONE Orchestra, which contains
patches for low, mid and high brass; low and high woodwinds;
and strings:

Do those not exist as separate brass and woodwinds instruments? On Edit: I see, you were hoping for solo instruments. It says nothing like that in the manual, why would you expect that they were there?

I did not expect solo instruments but solo sections that means not trombones, trumpets and horns together but trombones, horns and trumpets separately as a trombones section, horns section and trumpets section as I have in EW or Vienna orchestra.

[anomandaris1]

If you read the manual, it says this:

ALBION ONE ORCHESTRA
The first folder is Albion ONE Orchestra, which contains
patches for low, mid and high brass; low and high woodwinds;
and strings:

Do those not exist as separate brass and woodwinds instruments? On Edit: I see, you were hoping for solo instruments. It says nothing like that in the manual, why would you expect that they were there?

I did not expect solo instruments but solo sections that means not trombones, trumpets and horns together but trombones, horns and trumpets separately as a trombones section, horns section and trumpets section as I have in EW or Vienna orchestra.

This expectation is entirely unreasonable - did you read the manual/site presentation or watched any of countless youtube demo walkthroughs? It's your fault for imaging content that was not there. This product's target group is the newbies and media composers that don't want/have the time to mess with too complex templates of ensemble patches. I would be more careful next time before buying expensive Kontakt library.

[ghettosynth]

If you read the manual, it says this:

ALBION ONE ORCHESTRA
The first folder is Albion ONE Orchestra, which contains
patches for low, mid and high brass; low and high woodwinds;
and strings:

Do those not exist as separate brass and woodwinds instruments? On Edit: I see, you were hoping for solo instruments. It says nothing like that in the manual, why would you expect that they were there?

I did not expect solo instruments but solo sections that means not trombones, trumpets and horns together but trombones, horns and trumpets separately as a trombones section, horns section and trumpets section as I have in EW or Vienna orchestra.

Sure, I should have been more specific. However there is nothing in the manual to indicate that the library has such "solo sections."

BTW: Why is filing a paypal dispute out of the question? To be clear, I think that you should have done your homework a bit better, but, Paypal does tend to often side with the buyer as do credit card companies. It's not out of the question that a (gentle) threat of a paypal or credit card dispute may cause a company to bend their policy. That's certainly going to have a better chance at success then trying to find some legal angle that is unlikely to exist.

[Burillo]

What kind of impression would you get from a hobbled snippet of an orchestral library? It doesn't tell you anything if you don't have the articulations or round-robins. That's wildly different from getting taster patches that are wholly self-contained. There's no good analogy or comparison for an entire orchestra. Though you can download a couple cool Spitfire Labs instruments to get a feel for the UIs and general ethos.

that's not true either. you're making it out like if there's a single sample missing in the demo from the full version, the entire thing is ruined, and you cannot get any valid assessment at all. that's not even remotely close to the truth. of course a cut-down demo wouldn't tell you everything, but a well-designed demo library will tell you, in broad strokes, whether the library is something you would be interested in, or not. as an example, if you don't like the ambience or the timbre of strings, it doesn't matter how many round robins or quiet/loud/legato samples there are in the demo - you can pretty much conclude that you won't like it just from listening to a few samples.

Sampletank is free because they want to sell the sampler and addon libraries, not so much the content that comes with it. Kontakt Player is free because sample libraries need a version everyone can use.

nice strawman. sampler is useless without the samples - when you're buying SampleTank 3, you're buying samples, not the sampler. sampler-wise, full version and free version are identical. the point was that should you decide to buy SampleTank (or Syntronik, or...), you can download the free version and explore cut down version of sounds SampleTank offers, and make up your mind based on that, on the (valid) expectation that full version sounds wouldn't be wildly different from the free version - just more stuff.

This is all silly anyway. Composers are making film and AAA game soundtracks with Albion, Metropolis Ark, East West, and other similar products you can't resell. That is all the demo anyone needs.

lol really? you would buy a sample library because some other dude uses it and likes it? do you happen to like Beats headphones, by any chance?

It's not a question of quality, it's a question of ability and motivation.

no, it's a question of buying tools to do a job. if the tool doesn't fit the job, it's of no use to you, regardless of whether the tool is good at some other job.

[murnau]

The funniest thing is that the main selling point for Albion are the pre-orchestered orchestral sections. The library wouldn't exist without it, it's the concept behind the product.

[dandezebra]

Can't believe there are still people on here bashing Spitfire for this... Sigh.

[Burillo]

Can't believe there are still people on here bashing Spitfire for this... Sigh.

return policies and demos exist precisely to prevent this from happening. is the OP at fault for failing to look into what he's buying more? sure. however, it could be argued that it would be counter-intuitive to someone who doesn't have that much experience and owns EWQL symphonic libraries to expect that a different orchestral library doesn't provide solo sections, which is why a demo or returns policy would've been nice.

to those who say "well you should've read the manual" and "it doesn't say solo sections are provided"... go back to when SampleTank 3 was released. IK took a huge bashing because people expected there to be a 32-bit version, and chastised Peter for giving exactly the same response - "well, it didn't say it had 32-bit version". where were you then? i'm sorry, but not everyone is a lawyer, nor everyone is already familiar with Spitfire products and their "thing", "ethos" or whatever. it's natural to expect solo sections from an orchestral library, so a certain percentage of people will make that mistake, and for these occasions, a demo or a return policy goes a long way to prevent people from ending up with something that will be of no use to them.

[dandezebra]

Can't believe there are still people on here bashing Spitfire for this... Sigh.

return policies and demos exist precisely to prevent this from happening. is the OP at fault for failing to look into what he's buying more? sure. however, it could be argued that it would be counter-intuitive to someone who doesn't have that much experience and owns EWQL symphonic libraries to expect that a different orchestral library doesn't provide solo sections, which is why a demo or returns policy would've been nice.

to those who say "well you should've read the manual" and "it doesn't say solo sections are provided"... go back to when SampleTank 3 was released. IK took a huge bashing because people expected there to be a 32-bit version, and chastised Peter for giving exactly the same response - "well, it didn't say it had 32-bit version". where were you then? i'm sorry, but not everyone is a lawyer, nor everyone is already familiar with Spitfire products and their "thing", "ethos" or whatever. it's natural to expect solo sections from an orchestral library, so a certain percentage of people will make that mistake, and for these occasions, a demo or a return policy goes a long way to prevent people from ending up with something that will be of no use to them.

I get where you are coming from but more in the realm of a $0 - $50 purchase.Not the amount that Spitfire is correctly charging for their massive libraries. Especially if it is not your first mega library purchase...

Again, as has been said...What could a company's guarantee be that a library was deleted if it was refunded or exchanged after download? I am genuinely curious as I would imagine it would be a mess that would open up the ilok blah can of worms. I know they watermark.

[poshook]

The funniest thing is that the main selling point for Albion are the pre-orchestered orchestral sections. The library wouldn't exist without it, it's the concept behind the product.

Ok, I could read whole manual and watched all walktrough videos, listen all audio demos. The question is. what is enough to be 100% sure?

This is the information directly from the Albion One site.

EPIC COMPOSER TOOLS

This is everything you need to make film music in one box. At its heart is a 109 piece orchestra accompanied by a thunderous cinematic percussion section. Add to that warp-able loops designed by award-winning music makers, plus an enormous steam synthesiser - it’s no wonder Albion ONE is our most renowned orchestral sample library. Perfect for first-timers and established composers alike, this industry standard product is the perfect place to start your film scoring journey.

We were convinced that in order to create a great film scoring tool we should go to where the best film scores are recorded. Air Studios in London was founded by Sir George Martin, the legendary producer behind The Beatles. Its Hall has been the choice of Hollywood directors for decades, with countless blockbuster scores being recorded there (Justice League, Interstellar, Harry Potter, Pirates Of The Caribbean, Lord Of The Rings - the list goes on). Our Albion ONE orchestra was recorded by award-winning engineers via world-class equipment: priceless ribbon and valve mics through Neve Montserrat preamps, the largest 88R Neve console in the world and onto pristine 2” tape before being converted with the top-of-their-class Prism AD converters at 96k. No expense has been spared in order to capture in exactly the same way as for the movies.

The original Albion concept was simple - it had to be everything you’d need to score a film in single product. At the heart of most film scores you’ll find a large orchestra, and so it was natural that we’d do what we do best, and capture something big and special to go at the core of Albion ONE. We assembled 109 (!) of London’s finest players, who feature regularly in Oscar-winning film score sessions and major global concert performances, and recorded them performing a range of techniques: long notes, short notes, tremolos, pizzicatos and so on. Each of these techniques are captured across a range of notes, and by section (Brass Low, Mid and High, Woods High and Low, and Strings), giving you the flexibility to program or perform your orchestral compositions with plenty of control.

Albion ONE features our renowned “legato articulations”, which combine adjoining samples to give ultimate musicality, and also “runs” where a single note triggers the recording of a section playing phrases.

There are four mic positions (close, tree, outriggers & ambient) to load and mix to suit the type of music you’re writing and the scale you want to achieve. Spitfire also provides a popular “ostinatum” designer that allows you to instantly create exciting, tense or action packed rhythmic passages.

[dandezebra]

Each of these techniques are captured across a range of notes, and by section (Brass Low, Mid and High, Woods High and Low, and Strings), giving you the flexibility to program or perform your orchestral compositions with plenty of control.

[Burillo]

Again, as has been said...What could a company's guarantee be that a library was deleted if it was refunded or exchanged after download? I am genuinely curious as I would imagine it would be a mess that would open up the ilok blah can of worms. I know they watermark.

what is u-he's guarantee that after i just sold Satin i deleted it from my HDD and won't ever use the serial? what is Pettinhouse's guarantee that i still don't have their libraries i sold off a few years ago on my HDD? there isn't any. so what? we're all adults here.

[chk071]

I just realized that Albion One is 349 €... wow, how can you even buy that without knowing exactly what to expect? Seriously, there's gazillion of sound demos of it available online. Next time, make up your head thoroughly, before shelling out so much money for something you don't want or need. *shakes head*

[poshook]

Each of these techniques are captured across a range of notes, and by section (Brass Low, Mid and High, Woods High and Low, and Strings), giving you the flexibility to program or perform your orchestral compositions with plenty of control.

That is simply not truth as for brass and woodwinds there is just staccato and sustain.

[poshook]

I just realized that Albion One is 349 €... wow, how can you even buy that without knowing exactly what to expect? Seriously, there's gazillion of sound demos of it available online. Next time, make up your head thoroughly, before shelling out so much money for something you don't want or need. *shakes head*

Yes next time sure. I think that we could talk about the issue no matter the price as price is very subjective. When I read what you write, I have the impression that the higher the price the more intensive I have to listen to audio demos. Have you ever resell or refund a plugin?