I think this question should absolutely not be answered from an "emotional" standpoint. The differences between hosts are undoubtetly so small that when a musician is trying to contemplate on these differences by his intuition alone, he is influenced by a lot of things irrelevant to the actual question (for instance, I would argue that the GUI of the host might affect the musicians assesment). After all, we are not really talking about MUSIC here, but sound quality. The question has little practical value, and any speculations on the issue should imo spring from a scientific/theoretical point of view.original flipper wrote:The question is deserving of being answered from an emotional standpoint IMO, when people turn something like MUSIC into a techfest of explanation I think they have lost heart of what is essentially an emotive and timeless pursuit - but there you go.
Different hosts produces different sound ?
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- KVRian
- 619 posts since 15 Feb, 2004 from Birmingham, UK
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- KVRAF
- 37418 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
This is my opinion - speaking as something of a connoisseur of course:
FL Studio - is aging just beautifully. What a class act! Strawberries, minerals, a hint of raspberry, everything I hoped for. Nearly dumb on release, it's turned out better than most of the 1993 Burgs that I so carefully selected - fine full bodied texture with a good depth of sound, rich in colour and has just the right underlay of vanillin American oak
Orion - is equally fine, if a bit less intense. A cheeky little number, warm timbres of raspberries and sloes topped of with 32 bits of electric jism
Tracktion - a sensual, slippery texture conceals a fair amount of acidity. Doesn’t shrink from any of the mixes we make it with. Seems a mere pup. Opens with airing. Could merit a higher score in a few years, depending on how it ages
Cubase SX - don't let it's vintage beguile you. This is all about lush, ripe fruit. Lots of deep cherry and raspberry flavors. The oaky finish with hints of rosmary and tannins takes you back to those warm shags on Mediterranean beaches. Just a hint of seagull...
Nuendo - Marmite and sweaty socks mulled for two days in the armpit of a peruvian llama wrestler. Classic vintage - could be a hit!
Project 5 - stand back after trying this - it's a gusher. Lashings of woody, juniper berry timbres resonant with Moroccan ambience - smoky tents and cannabis.
SAW Studio - it may not be big, but it's even more complex. Takes an hour to emerge in my sizable monitors, so back it up if you're planning on robbing the cradle. When things finally start happening, they come thick and fast - lots of classic real analog cabinet timbres, followed by licorice, band-aid, and wait a minute, is that chocolate? Violets too. Bravo, Bob. Must see if I can find a few more.
Energy XT - I'm expecting something better than just okay. I worry it may have faded. But the first tinkle is fairly seductive and as hours tick by, it gets better. A whiff of diesel. Some honeysuckle. The palate is peaches and apricot stones. Finish is very respectable. What have we here? I really like it! Twenty-four hours later, I'm taking another snort. Still really good.
Sonar 3 - is impossible to bash. A lick of licorice is followed by buckets of bramble-berry, bing cherry, analog pajamas and other beauties. Someone sniffs about the oak. Aw c'mon. A puppy jumps in your lap, licks your face, and you're gonna argue about the breed? This one too is more complex and interesting than it was on release. I wouldn't hold it much longer, but right now this is great existential blind date - Cilla??
a far as hosts go I prefer to spit than swallow
FL Studio - is aging just beautifully. What a class act! Strawberries, minerals, a hint of raspberry, everything I hoped for. Nearly dumb on release, it's turned out better than most of the 1993 Burgs that I so carefully selected - fine full bodied texture with a good depth of sound, rich in colour and has just the right underlay of vanillin American oak
Orion - is equally fine, if a bit less intense. A cheeky little number, warm timbres of raspberries and sloes topped of with 32 bits of electric jism
Tracktion - a sensual, slippery texture conceals a fair amount of acidity. Doesn’t shrink from any of the mixes we make it with. Seems a mere pup. Opens with airing. Could merit a higher score in a few years, depending on how it ages
Cubase SX - don't let it's vintage beguile you. This is all about lush, ripe fruit. Lots of deep cherry and raspberry flavors. The oaky finish with hints of rosmary and tannins takes you back to those warm shags on Mediterranean beaches. Just a hint of seagull...
Nuendo - Marmite and sweaty socks mulled for two days in the armpit of a peruvian llama wrestler. Classic vintage - could be a hit!
Project 5 - stand back after trying this - it's a gusher. Lashings of woody, juniper berry timbres resonant with Moroccan ambience - smoky tents and cannabis.
SAW Studio - it may not be big, but it's even more complex. Takes an hour to emerge in my sizable monitors, so back it up if you're planning on robbing the cradle. When things finally start happening, they come thick and fast - lots of classic real analog cabinet timbres, followed by licorice, band-aid, and wait a minute, is that chocolate? Violets too. Bravo, Bob. Must see if I can find a few more.
Energy XT - I'm expecting something better than just okay. I worry it may have faded. But the first tinkle is fairly seductive and as hours tick by, it gets better. A whiff of diesel. Some honeysuckle. The palate is peaches and apricot stones. Finish is very respectable. What have we here? I really like it! Twenty-four hours later, I'm taking another snort. Still really good.
Sonar 3 - is impossible to bash. A lick of licorice is followed by buckets of bramble-berry, bing cherry, analog pajamas and other beauties. Someone sniffs about the oak. Aw c'mon. A puppy jumps in your lap, licks your face, and you're gonna argue about the breed? This one too is more complex and interesting than it was on release. I wouldn't hold it much longer, but right now this is great existential blind date - Cilla??
a far as hosts go I prefer to spit than swallow
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- KVRist
- 133 posts since 19 Jan, 2003
Yes, but only through FL's mixing engine, not it's sampler. What you see in that test is FL sampler quality test. It's mixing engine is AFAIK sample-accurate, so everything should be of absolutely the same quality as it comes out of Kontakt plugin (at least when there's no other sound to be mixed with it, and no clipping occurs).ceenda wrote: Actually... doesn't even the output from Kontakt end up going through Fruity Loop's internal audio processing on it's way to the FX and Master output?
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 3 Jun, 2003 from Near Chicago
For a more in-depth discussion go here:
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultim ... forum&f=19
There is even a CD which can be purchased which has the comparison mixdowns of numerous DAW's and even a couple high end analog consoles.
(Sorry if someone already pointed this out)
Bottom line: DAW mixes in different hosts null down to extremely low levels; some down to -132 dB which is way below the noise floor of most audio equipment.
Gray area: Some "golden ears" still hear differences in these effectively digitally identical mixes.
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultim ... forum&f=19
There is even a CD which can be purchased which has the comparison mixdowns of numerous DAW's and even a couple high end analog consoles.
(Sorry if someone already pointed this out)
Bottom line: DAW mixes in different hosts null down to extremely low levels; some down to -132 dB which is way below the noise floor of most audio equipment.
Gray area: Some "golden ears" still hear differences in these effectively digitally identical mixes.
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
not at -132dB they don't. Brownian motion in the air particles makes more noise than that.Bennett wrote: Gray area: Some "golden ears" still hear differences in these effectively digitally identical mixes.
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- KVRAF
- 37418 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Forgot one:
Samplitude - creamy cotton fluff with a nose of white pepper and meat, superbly structured, yet still very hedonistic. Fully mature with fat, unctuous, supple notes of earwax, caramel and ink along with good persistence on the palate. A carnal mix of black tea and KY gel ran a continuous thread from entry to finish - 99% inspiration, 1 % perspiration. For the cognoscenti or golden eared brownies.
Petrol-like volatility, best served thoroughly chilled
Samplitude - creamy cotton fluff with a nose of white pepper and meat, superbly structured, yet still very hedonistic. Fully mature with fat, unctuous, supple notes of earwax, caramel and ink along with good persistence on the palate. A carnal mix of black tea and KY gel ran a continuous thread from entry to finish - 99% inspiration, 1 % perspiration. For the cognoscenti or golden eared brownies.
Petrol-like volatility, best served thoroughly chilled
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
c'mon round of applause for aMUSEd
can't be easy coming up with that many adjectives
well i played Absynth2 Brian Clevinger's Invertebrate rhythms through P-5 alone, through P-5 Rewired into Sonar and in Sonar
all on the same soundcard
and fwiw there are definite and distinct differnces of brightness for lack of a better word in Sonar vs. P-5
afaik this is the only synth that I've tested that has significant timbral difference. almost any other differences are minor -- some are simply volume and some are slight brightness/sharpness differneces
can't be easy coming up with that many adjectives
well i played Absynth2 Brian Clevinger's Invertebrate rhythms through P-5 alone, through P-5 Rewired into Sonar and in Sonar
all on the same soundcard
and fwiw there are definite and distinct differnces of brightness for lack of a better word in Sonar vs. P-5
afaik this is the only synth that I've tested that has significant timbral difference. almost any other differences are minor -- some are simply volume and some are slight brightness/sharpness differneces
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- KVRist
- 189 posts since 29 Jan, 2003 from location, location, location...
Oh never mind....saulc12 wrote:Different hosts will process audio differently internally and the sounds of the vsts will have passed through the hosts audio processing at mix down if no where else, because of this most plugins will sound very slightly different from host to host - some will sound very different, this is also the case with different audio drivers, so you may find that a vsi played through the same host on different machines, but with identical sound cards and monitoring might sound different if say one machine was playing back using asio drivers and the other was using direct x. Again this is entirely down to how the data is processed in the mix down of the audio streams.
This is one reason why anybody producing a vst should test in as many hosts as possible.
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- KVRist
- 326 posts since 13 Sep, 2002 from Perth Western Australia
Who gives a shit just use anything and make a nice tune 
listen to my tunes here:
http://soundcloud.com/damien-chamizo
http://soundcloud.com/damien-chamizo
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1789 posts since 17 Mar, 2004 from Bretagne, the west of France
After reading all replies I really wonder now
Do I have golden ears or should I go seeing an ear doctor ?
Rony
Do I have golden ears or should I go seeing an ear doctor ?
Rony
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
A famous poem examines the differences in sounds produced by different hosts (or, in this instance, hostesses), as well as the psycho-acoustic difficulties encountered when trying to locate bassy sounds in the audio field. *ahem*
I sat next to the Duchess at tea;
It was just as I'd feared it would be.
. . Her rumblings abdominal
. . Were truly phenomenal...
And everyone thought it was me! :-(
Meffy
P.S.: Oops, I see kritikon has already discussed this portion of the sound spectrum.
I sat next to the Duchess at tea;
It was just as I'd feared it would be.
. . Her rumblings abdominal
. . Were truly phenomenal...
And everyone thought it was me! :-(
Meffy
P.S.: Oops, I see kritikon has already discussed this portion of the sound spectrum.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1789 posts since 17 Mar, 2004 from Bretagne, the west of France
I just had an idea...
if someone could send me a wave of a pure sine signal... i could render it with the 3 hosts I have and see if it gives a difference.
Or do I sound REALLY stupid now ?
Rony
if someone could send me a wave of a pure sine signal... i could render it with the 3 hosts I have and see if it gives a difference.
Or do I sound REALLY stupid now ?
Rony
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
I'd guess that a sine sweep or real music would probably be a better test.
Over at the Cakewalk forums there's been a long and angsty debate about an audio rendering (???) distinction that one person claims causes an obvious, audible, and apparently quantifiable :-D difference between Sonar and Nuendo. The overwhelming consensus seems to be that in a controlled A/B test there are small differences in output but whether they're audible is still debatable. The final verdict is still out.
It's a contentious issue, to this day referred to only as "That %#*@!& '20-40% Better' Affair" by those wearing both the gray coats and the blue.
Meffy
[edit] Of course, you can still try it. Sound Forge can crank out sines to order. Other wave editors probably can do the same. No sweep generator in my SF6, though. Csound is a likely suspect if you're into that kind of thing.
Over at the Cakewalk forums there's been a long and angsty debate about an audio rendering (???) distinction that one person claims causes an obvious, audible, and apparently quantifiable :-D difference between Sonar and Nuendo. The overwhelming consensus seems to be that in a controlled A/B test there are small differences in output but whether they're audible is still debatable. The final verdict is still out.
It's a contentious issue, to this day referred to only as "That %#*@!& '20-40% Better' Affair" by those wearing both the gray coats and the blue.
Meffy
[edit] Of course, you can still try it. Sound Forge can crank out sines to order. Other wave editors probably can do the same. No sweep generator in my SF6, though. Csound is a likely suspect if you're into that kind of thing.