It's time for me to update/upgrade my host. I'm interested in sampling some old tracks, etc, so I think I will move away from Mulab for a bit. I can update my old Live license or get Bitwig. I've been playing with these two for a couple of weeks. I generally like Bitwig a bit better.
Live Pro:
less expensive at $191 Canadian for standard version
Live Con:
Is it 64-bit only? My demo is 64bit. Most of my plugins are old and 32bit only May have to spend another $30 for 32 to 64 bit bridge.
Bitwig Pros:
I really like the layout better. It reminds me of Project5.
Handles 32bit and 64bit.
Bitwig con:
More expensive at $450 Canadian. That's a lot more and tough to swallow.
Is there any other main features I should play with and test out before making a decision? I know about Bitwig's modulation capabilities but that doesn't interest me a whole lot right now
I guess a third option would be to use my older versions of Live or Samplitude to stretch audio clips to certain tempo and then upgrade and use Mulab. But that's more work that is less fun...
Bitwig or Live?
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- KVRian
- 690 posts since 31 May, 2002 from chez moi
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- KVRAF
- 26992 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
If you intend to do a lot of timestretch, Live has better timestretch than Bitwig.
But if you already have Live, just use the version you have. Why upgrade at all?
But if you already have Live, just use the version you have. Why upgrade at all?
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
MuLab is getting time stretching and knowing Jo, it will be best thing you can get in a DAW, be patient, he really wants to nail this one, think that's major MuLab 8 feature.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG-
Spencer Maddox Spencer Maddox https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=406543 - KVRian
- 814 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from The Empire State
Oh Boy...This Thread could become interesting.
Anyways in my opinion you cant go wrong with either, They are my 2 main Daws that I use for Production and I use them rather interchangably for different things. both are fantastic Daws with unique features that make them special. BUT, much as Zexlia said, Timestreching IS coming in ML8.
So if thats what you really want then waiting it out a bit could be helpful on your wallet. I'm not a mulab user but it couldn't be long before it drops now.
Anyways in my opinion you cant go wrong with either, They are my 2 main Daws that I use for Production and I use them rather interchangably for different things. both are fantastic Daws with unique features that make them special. BUT, much as Zexlia said, Timestreching IS coming in ML8.
So if thats what you really want then waiting it out a bit could be helpful on your wallet. I'm not a mulab user but it couldn't be long before it drops now.
The post above this is likely bait, viewer discretion is advised.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 31 May, 2002 from chez moi
It's Live 5. I'll try it again but I seem to recall having some problems with it last time I installed on Windows 10 (I recently re-installed Windows and I haven't installed v5 yet).pdxindy wrote:If you intend to do a lot of timestretch, Live has better timestretch than Bitwig.
But if you already have Live, just use the version you have. Why upgrade at all?
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- KVRAF
- 26992 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Oh, yeah that one is kinda old...sluggo wrote:It's Live 5. I'll try it again but I seem to recall having some problems with it last time I installed on Windows 10 (I recently re-installed Windows and I haven't installed v5 yet).pdxindy wrote:If you intend to do a lot of timestretch, Live has better timestretch than Bitwig.
But if you already have Live, just use the version you have. Why upgrade at all?
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- Banned
- 2238 posts since 19 Dec, 2014
if only this question was asked before ... numerous times ...
oh wait, what's this .... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=495013
that's the recent one. this topic has been discussed ad nauseum since the launch of bitwig studio.
use the search function, your query is not novel or unique.
oh wait, what's this .... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=495013
that's the recent one. this topic has been discussed ad nauseum since the launch of bitwig studio.
use the search function, your query is not novel or unique.
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- KVRAF
- 2140 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA
Bitwig versus Live. My advice would be to wait just a little to play with Live 10 before buying. Check out the Bitwig KVR forum to read about its foibles. Live's you're probably already somewhat familiar with but check out the centercode beta forum for the latest.
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- KVRist
- 50 posts since 28 Mar, 2014
Live because of Max.
You can't explore it in a short time but Max programming is worth learning. The long term benefits will be immense. Once you know the basics it's a lot of fun to program.
Stanford University offers a top quality MOOC on Max: https://www.kadenze.com/courses/program ... rts-i/info
You can't explore it in a short time but Max programming is worth learning. The long term benefits will be immense. Once you know the basics it's a lot of fun to program.
Stanford University offers a top quality MOOC on Max: https://www.kadenze.com/courses/program ... rts-i/info
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- KVRAF
- 12106 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
Bitwig because you don't need to learn to program MAX to make interesting instruments and soundsuntimelyman wrote:Live because of Max.
You can't explore it in a short time but Max programming is worth learning. The long term benefits will be immense. Once you know the basics it's a lot of fun to program.
Stanford University offers a top quality MOOC on Max: https://www.kadenze.com/courses/program ... rts-i/info
X32 and 24C mixers, S88MK3, Live + PUSH 3, Osmose, RedShift 6, Pro3, S4, Tempera, Syntakt, Digitone, OP1-F, OPXY, TR-1000, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
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Mister Natural Mister Natural https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=164174 - KVRAF
- 2893 posts since 28 Oct, 2007 from michigan
Pick one and stick with it, learning it inside and out
expert only on what it feels like to be me
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
If choice is between Live STANDARD and Bitwig, then obviously go for Bitwig! I'd say for Live there's no point in going anything else than Suite, due to all the 'extra' instruments, effects, M4L and sample/loop packs - it's just more complete package than Bitwig. Also, upgrading right now to Live 9 Suite you'll get v10 for free when it comes out in Q1 2018.
Having said that, I still prefer Bitwig even vs. Live 10 (I'm beta testing it) because of the smooth & consistent workflow, much more flexible GUI, plugin bridging & sandboxing, playful modulation system. Also, I always seem to be rooting for the underdog
Having said that, I still prefer Bitwig even vs. Live 10 (I'm beta testing it) because of the smooth & consistent workflow, much more flexible GUI, plugin bridging & sandboxing, playful modulation system. Also, I always seem to be rooting for the underdog
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- KVRAF
- 2454 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
I have both and love both but seem to enjoy being in Bitwig better overall. Like the implementation of clip launcher and arranger in Bitwig better.
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- KVRAF
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
I own both also (9 Suite), but almost exclusively use Bitwig. I could wish for a way to use all the samples in Live, particularly the drum hits, but almost all of them are encrypted, if memory serves, and it's too much a PITA to do it with inter-app routing.
Bitwig has far more active development going on than Live. But there's also a lot that is still missing. Big on my list are: time signature changes, and a vastly improved Drum Machine. As to the latter, I want to use a single instrument, with a simple way to remap individual drum pads to a specific note on a specific instrument. Granted, this is cumbersome to do in Live, but at least it's possible. I've used it, for example, to completely map a Live Drum Rack to a Kontakt drum instrument with the pad arrangement I want, and only have a single instance of that instrument. This is nearly impossible to to in Bitwig.
However, even with those issues, I still prefer the Bitwig workflow, and make extensive use of the modulation system introduced in 2.0, which is way more elegant than using Max (although Max gives you endless ways to modulate since you can write your own).
The jury's still out whether I will upgrade to Live 10. The wavetable synth is not worth it because I have enough VSTs for that already. They still have clip parameter (program changes, mod CC, etc.) automation in a separate UI from track automation, which is idiotic. Still no MPE support, no VST3 support, no support for multi-out VST effects, no support for MIDI effect VSTs without doing complicated inter-track routing. As to the latter, compare Bitwig, where you can drop a MIDI effect VST such an arpeggiator, in front of a VST, and it just works. Live's inter-track routing is also limited. There's no elegant way to route MIDI and Audio from the same track. It's one or the other. Compare to Bitwig's Note Receiver, where you can pull in MIDI from any track.
Bitwig has far more active development going on than Live. But there's also a lot that is still missing. Big on my list are: time signature changes, and a vastly improved Drum Machine. As to the latter, I want to use a single instrument, with a simple way to remap individual drum pads to a specific note on a specific instrument. Granted, this is cumbersome to do in Live, but at least it's possible. I've used it, for example, to completely map a Live Drum Rack to a Kontakt drum instrument with the pad arrangement I want, and only have a single instance of that instrument. This is nearly impossible to to in Bitwig.
However, even with those issues, I still prefer the Bitwig workflow, and make extensive use of the modulation system introduced in 2.0, which is way more elegant than using Max (although Max gives you endless ways to modulate since you can write your own).
The jury's still out whether I will upgrade to Live 10. The wavetable synth is not worth it because I have enough VSTs for that already. They still have clip parameter (program changes, mod CC, etc.) automation in a separate UI from track automation, which is idiotic. Still no MPE support, no VST3 support, no support for multi-out VST effects, no support for MIDI effect VSTs without doing complicated inter-track routing. As to the latter, compare Bitwig, where you can drop a MIDI effect VST such an arpeggiator, in front of a VST, and it just works. Live's inter-track routing is also limited. There's no elegant way to route MIDI and Audio from the same track. It's one or the other. Compare to Bitwig's Note Receiver, where you can pull in MIDI from any track.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
You just need to try them both until you know.
I found no use for the modulators in Bitwig, you might find. I found Bitwig GUI cluttered and lacking visual separation (all the elements are shouting in the same highlight colour), but it is some ways more cleaner than Live, and the added flexibility might be a benefit for you. I didn't find the bundled fx and instruments to be of acceptable quality, but then again everyone has their own set of VST plugins anyway.
In the end it came down to history and future- Bitwig is still a WIP after all these years, and due to their financial struggles (lack of projected growth forced them to milk more money from the current users) I couldn't convince myself about them being there in 10 years. With Live, there's no question. It's mature, complete and stable and will continue to lead the market.
I found no use for the modulators in Bitwig, you might find. I found Bitwig GUI cluttered and lacking visual separation (all the elements are shouting in the same highlight colour), but it is some ways more cleaner than Live, and the added flexibility might be a benefit for you. I didn't find the bundled fx and instruments to be of acceptable quality, but then again everyone has their own set of VST plugins anyway.
In the end it came down to history and future- Bitwig is still a WIP after all these years, and due to their financial struggles (lack of projected growth forced them to milk more money from the current users) I couldn't convince myself about them being there in 10 years. With Live, there's no question. It's mature, complete and stable and will continue to lead the market.