Roland Cloud

[Ingonator]

This is a Fantom X (not any other Fantom) emulation with XV-5080 waveforms but only the JV-2080 patch banks. JV-2080's General MIDI bank is missing because the XV-5080 replaced it with a single 256 patch GM2 bank, which is obviously incompatible with Roland's garbage-tier preset browser. This plugin was likely slapped together in less than a day and is missing a ton of features from any of the original synths. The XV waveforms are probably only included because they couldn't be assed to change the waveform numbers back to the original JV-1080 numbers.

I think that's all you guys need to know

I was just comparing the 78 effects in the JV-1080 plugin with those in the XV-5080 manual and only around 53 of those in the plugin seemed to fit to those in XV-5080.

Also based on that previous post by Romantique Tp I then had the idea to check the Fantom X6 manual (first version from 2004). The 78 effects in the JV-1080 plugin indeed seem to be exactly those 78 found in the Fantom X6 !!

On the other hand the PCM waveform list in the JV-1080 plugin is that from the XV-3080/5080, not from the Fantom X.

The "INT" PCM waveforms bank in the Roland Integra-7 module (not the included additional SRX board PCM waves and other PCM waveform banks in the module) includes the same 1083 PCM waves as in the XV-3080/5080 (and the JV-1080 plugin).

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I was thinking of getting the System-something until they started with the cloud thing, now I just don't know what their focus is going to be or what will get abandoned. Maybe I still will eventually, the tight hardware integration is where I see Roland shining their best. I just kind of wish the shine wasn't neon green on black, that's not really to my tastes.

I'm pretty sure the System-8 won't see any major updates or additional Plug-Outs. I've seen rumors that it isn't selling well and there does seem to be more of a focus on the Cloud. My guess is that the System-8 will get discontinued soon. That said, it's a decent VA VSTi controller and sounds pretty good as a synth (the effects are pretty bad though). I agree with whoever suggested the future will be a combination of a touch screen with hardware controls protruding from it. No reason you couldn't attach a keyboard to something like that either.

[Jace-BeOS]

I was thinking of getting the System-something until they started with the cloud thing, now I just don't know what their focus is going to be or what will get abandoned.

I think you're smart to be cautious. Hardware makers will always discontinue hardware so they can sell something else to all the same customers again later. The problem got worse, IMO, when companies tried to compete with desktop computers by making products that integrated with desktop computers. That stuff tends to get abandoned just as readily, if not more quickly, and the initial development tends to suck. Instead of bringing the "benefits of software" to the hardware products, they're bringing the shorter lifespan of software to the hardware. If you didn't buy for the integration, then you're just as well off as anyone who ever bought any other piece of standalone hardware. But if you bought for all that integration...

It looks even worse from the perspective of computer users who are used to software being maintained for new operating system versions (for a while at least). Software companies have that focus. Hardware companies don't. When a hardware company declares there's future development coming, i laugh skeptically. It's against their corporate culture (though maybe Roland and Korg are learning??).

I've seen so many buggy products get no further development beyond the first few months of premature release to market. If it works at all, it tends to get fully broken by new OS releases. What's the point in buying such products? Synth hardware makers also seem to really suck at desktop software itself. It's not their area of expertise, so they rely on outside contractors (which they may not pick wisely for the same lack of expertise), resulting in inconsistency from product to product (hello Korg), and difficult/rare maintenance.

But we're talking about Roland here: Roland has been re-selling the VariOS architecture in several forms for a while now. Each version is completely isolated from / incompatible with the others (an update to one does not help anything else that came before it), and each has been quickly abandoned. First it was the VariOS unit itself. The software development was never even finished. The V-Synth came next, with two new VariOS-based plugins in PC Card format (D50 and a voice "modeler"; i don't think these worked on the VariOS hardware). The two synths that were already developed for VariOS weren't included or compatible. The V-Synth XT saw the two plugin cards dropped from the market and the software was integrated into the XT machine; no new cards were released (the card slot was used only for storage; there was no USB host). The GT dropped the integrated D50 and added... nothing new in this regard. VariOS became a place to reuse code in new products, but the platform concept was abandoned after product one.

Each unit released had its desktop drivers and librarian abandoned after version 1. As soon as the next hardware model came out, they'd put out a new driver and librarian that only worked with the new hardware. Anyone hoping the new drivers for the V-Synth GT would also extend the life of the desktop integration of the previous two V-Synths was disappointed.

Now Roland has stuck this software into yet another hardware product and claimed some road map for continued development... again. They did actually release a few more bits this time around... mostly the stuff that was already built from the prior products. Which one of these new plugins (sorry, "Plug Outs") was NOT developed for any of the prior VARI OS products? I think there's one... What kinds of drivers and other software do these things rely on? Are the Plugouts and Plugins the same software? Will advances in Plugins benefit the Plugouts? Are the Plugouts dead? Is "Roland Cloud" going to ensure that each piece of hardware's computer integration is maintained? Will Roland Cloud last?

Along with my two pieces of Roland hardware that has desktop integration (neither of which have current support), I have several other pieces of hardware with editors/drivers that were abandoned at version 1.x. I require old OSes and old computers to run them. I understand that software tends to get discontinued, but usually after years of maintenance, and, yes, i understand that Windows has longer-term backwards compatibility than Mac OS (this is changing and isn't always the solution in the first place), but these hardware synth companies never do years of maintenance. They do a version one, maybe one critical bug fix, and then it's game over. "Please buy this new expensive piece of hardware". Sometimes they never even finish version one. Software upgrades are not in their culture.

The only company that has impressed me with *continued* support is Access with their Virus TI (and we all know how poor that "Total Integration" is for many people anyway). Instead of releasing Virus TI 3, 4, 5, XT, GT, and whatever, and abandoning the existing model, they've maintained the TI. They apparently make their money elsewhere...?

The more generic and open/universal the integration (MIDI/sysex, open specs, class-compliant drivers, etc), the better. Someone else might come along and make a third-party editor or librarian for you, or you can do it yourself if you're a programmer (i am NOT). Software longevity is bad enough as is. I don't like my hardware being made not just obsolete but actually useless (partially or totally) by the desktop software component being abandoned. I have two very expensive audio interfaces that are worthless to me because of corporate greed and stupidity (M-Audio/Avid), and most of my hardware that promised desktop integration either failed to accomplish the goal or lasted only two OS revisions.

These are all things i think about when i consider otherwise interesting products like Roland's System [n].

[robotmonkey]

Nothing wrong with 90's ROMplers. I actually like them more than most subtractive analogue emulations. I much prefer the digital sound and many of the sonically most interesting albums were made in 90's. Also many of the 90's ROMplers had actually quite complex synthesis architecture behind them.

This is the first truly interesting synth from Roland. Of course I'm going to avoid the horrible Roland Cloud like a plague, but if this would be perpetual plugin in the price range of Korg Legacy plugins, I would probably get it.

[gentleclockdivider]

Nothing wrong with 90's ROMplers. I actually like them more than most subtractive analogue emulations. I much prefer the digital sound and many of the sonically most interesting albums were made in 90's. Also many of the 90's ROMplers had actually quite complex synthesis architecture behind them.

This is the first truly interesting synth from Roland. Of course I'm going to avoid the horrible Roland Cloud like a plague, but if this would be perpetual plugin in the price range of Korg Legacy plugins, I would probably get it.

Nothing complex about a Romplers synthesis architecture .
Basic subtractive without all the goodies to achieve more complex harmonics ( osc sync . fm ) ...except jd 990
In essence most romplers are the same , roland pcm is unique because of it's osc .routings ( ring mod and serial filter topo )

[VitaminD]

Does one need to give Roland a CC in order to active a 30 day trial? I cannot see a way on their website to just get a 30 day trial...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Does one need to give Roland a CC in order to active a 30 day trial? I cannot see a way on their website to just get a 30 day trial...

No card required. Just sign up.

[VitaminD]

Does one need to give Roland a CC in order to active a 30 day trial? I cannot see a way on their website to just get a 30 day trial...

No card required. Just sign up.

How do I download the software then? I made a roland account but I do not see how to actually get the installers.

[VitaminD]

Oh I think I found it.. under Catalog > Essentials > Roland Cloud Manager.. tucked away.

[Ingonator]

You can download the manual for the JV-1080 plugin here:
https://www.rolandcloud.com/catalog/legendary/jv-1080

direct link to the PDF file: https://www.rolandcloud.com/getattachme ... S&ext=.pdf

This includes details about the 78 included FXs (which seem to be based on those in Fantom X as already mentioend earlier).

The manual also explains how to use the stereo samples (all stereo samples from the XV-5080 are included).
With those you get separate samples for the left and right strereo channels. Those were not included in the original JV-1080.

The presets included in the plugin are from JV-1080/2080 so they do not use the advanced features. You would have to modify existing presets or create your own to make full use of all features included with the plugin.

[Echoes in the Attic]

But I'd maybe go for the system-8 instead of cloud as that has the ones I'm most interested in, the jupiter and juno (plus system-8). Plus full hardware control, seems nice. I wonder what the third plugout will be that's included (there's one more space as I understand it). I just wish there was a 5 octave keyboard, that I'd probably buy.

I was thinking of getting the System-something until they started with the cloud thing, now I just don't know what their focus is going to be or what will get abandoned. Maybe I still will eventually, the tight hardware integration is where I see Roland shining their best. I just kind of wish the shine wasn't neon green on black, that's not really to my tastes.

I don’t really understand the skepticism because of the cloud stuff. I’m not a big fan of the cloud subscription but the fact they are doing all those cloud instruments doesn’t mean they won’t focus on the system-8, that doesn’t make sense. They are meant to work together. There’s a button on the vsts to upload to, or be controlled by, the system-8/1. They are part of the same ecosystem. More cloud synths mean more synths that can be controlled by the hardware. You get 4 synths when you buy a system-8. That would take 4 years with the cloud to own those and almost a thousand dollars.

But I’m cheap and don’t like having too many keyboards so will probably look for a used one some day. But it would be cool having a Jupiter-8 or Juno 106 at the push of a button with everything mapped out to dedicated hardware.

I am curious about a couple things though. If you own the system-8, do you just get to chose any fourth synth you want?

Also, the keyboard isn’t multi-timbral right? You can only trigger one at a time by a midi sequencer?

[gentleclockdivider]

I think the sys-8 is bi-timbral , key split over 2 midi channels
Not sure about that

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

But I'd maybe go for the system-8 instead of cloud as that has the ones I'm most interested in, the jupiter and juno (plus system-8). Plus full hardware control, seems nice. I wonder what the third plugout will be that's included (there's one more space as I understand it). I just wish there was a 5 octave keyboard, that I'd probably buy.

I was thinking of getting the System-something until they started with the cloud thing, now I just don't know what their focus is going to be or what will get abandoned. Maybe I still will eventually, the tight hardware integration is where I see Roland shining their best. I just kind of wish the shine wasn't neon green on black, that's not really to my tastes.

I don’t really understand the skepticism because of the cloud stuff. I’m not a big fan of the cloud subscription but the fact they are doing all those cloud instruments doesn’t mean they won’t focus on the system-8, that doesn’t make sense. They are meant to work together. There’s a button on the vsts to upload to, or be controlled by, the system-8/1. They are part of the same ecosystem. More cloud synths mean more synths that can be controlled by the hardware. You get 4 synths when you buy a system-8. That would take 4 years with the cloud to own those and almost a thousand dollars.

But I’m cheap and don’t like having too many keyboards so will probably look for a used one some day. But it would be cool having a Jupiter-8 or Juno 106 at the push of a button with everything mapped out to dedicated hardware.

I am curious about a couple things though. If you own the system-8, do you just get to chose any fourth synth you want?

Also, the keyboard isn’t multi-timbral right? You can only trigger one at a time by a midi sequencer?

The potential of the System-8 and Roland Cloud integration is much greater the the reality. Outside of the promised Juno-106, there have been zero new plug out synths released for the System-8. Newer Roland Cloud synths aren't compatible and there's no official word from Roland if any new System-8 plug outs will ever be released. It's been over a year since anything new came out via the Juno plug out, which I can't even buy.

In addition, if you own your plug out synth via a perpetual license, Roland stopped updating it. So while I own the SH-101 plugin, the Cloud version that uses less CPU isn't available to me without ponying up for the Cloud subscription each month. If they ever fix the blurry GUIs of the plugins, recent history indicates that my SH-101 won't get the update.

Also, it sounded like you may be a bit unclear as to how the additional plug outs work. The plug outs that come with the System-8 are only available in the System-8. If you want the VST/AU plugin versions, you have to subscribe to Roland Cloud. Those synths are not even available for sale as perpetual licenses, let alone free for S8 owners.

The 4th plug out slot can be filled with any Roland VA synth you want, but only the stuff that came out before the System 8 was released is available for sale via perpetual license. So the Jupiter, Juno and System-8 plugins are not for sale outside of the Cloud, even if you own the hardware System-8 with the plug outs. The digital synths can't be loaded into the S8 at all. There's also no poly synths that didn't already come with the System-8 so unless you want to pay a subscription for the privilege of loading a second Juno or Jupiter, basically limiting you to mono synths in the 4th slot.

So yeah, there's A LOT that's not to like about how Roland rolled out and supported the S8. There's a ton of missed opportunities that could still be rectified, but there's a Roland sales sheet floating around that indicates they only sold 4,000 System-8's which compared to other products in their current lineup isn't a lot. I think poor sales combined with how support (via any new plug outs or consumer friendly treatment) has dried up for the System-8 hardware, along with the hard push for the Cloud mean the System-8 is on the road to becoming abandoned. Roland also has a long history of doing just this.

That said, it's a nice standalone synth and probably the best generic VA synth controller if you want lots of hands on controls. However, know what you're getting into. There's little to no reason to think Roland will fulfill any more of the System-8's awesome potential when it comes to the plug out concept. It is what it is, which is all it was really advertised to be and nothing more.

[fmr]

I may be mistaken, but I think that Roland Cloud ISN'T Roland. It is a joint-venture between Roland and some third-party company (led by Jeremy Soule) and most likely there are programmers hired by this third-party company that had access to the original Roland Port-folio, and are porting the code - thsat's why we first got the D-50 that was originally released for V-Synth, and now the JV-1080 that was basically what was inside Roland Fantom, AFAIK. .

But since they are programming purely for the desktop OSes, and the Plug-Out system requires completely different code, and above all because they have nothing to do with the Plug-Out thing (which was exclusively another one "billiant" Roland idea, as the already mentioned VariOS et all) it's unlikely that something will be released for that by the Roland Cloud.

Someone that knows more, feel free to correct me. but this is what I understood from what's been happening.

[SLiC]

I couldn’t agree more, as a system 1m user I think the entire plug out concept was great and the sound was spot on from the hardware, but from the get go the platform and associated plug outs were poorly supported and forcing hardware owners to go cloud to get updates on software they have already bought outright is criminal.