Roland Cloud

[Echoes in the Attic]

Taken from their site: "Roland Virtual Sonics LLC represents the joint venture between Roland Corporation and Seattle based Virtual Sonics"

I assume Roland are producing (or working with someone) to produce the emulation VSTs based on their ACB/DCB code, and Virtual Sonics are producing the sample-based VST content. And I suspect someone in Roland naively signed a contract with these guys for cloud exclusive delivery, and that's why they are in such a mess.

For what I understand, all the work (sampling and VST development) is being done by people hired by Roland Virtual Sonics LLC. Roland also hired someone to write their VST plug-ins, but probably is not doing that anymore, hence the fact they ceased to be updated.

Regarding the VST versions of Jupiter-8 and Juno-106, I agree that the owners of System-8 had (have) the expectation of using them as VSTs too, following the example of the previous "plug-outs", and Roland (or Roland Virtual Sonics LLC) should address that.

But before issuing any new versions for the ones being sold or VST versions of JUpiter-8 and Juno-106 to the owners of System-8, they have to implement some kind of protection scheme for them, which currently they have not.

Wouldn't it be just as simple as giving a license for those two VSTs to the system-8 owners? Just as you would for someone who gained permanent ownership of a plugin after a year of cloud subscription? Doesn't seem like a difficult administrative task since they already must have that capability.

[c0nan]

You have to have consecutive months as well, not something you can put down after 10 months and pick up a few months later with your equity intact, I do not like that at all.

That´s wrong. Is googling really that hard before making false statements?

[SLiC]

Don't forget the System 1 and System 1m owners!!

SH-101, SH02 Promars and System 100 were all origonaly 'plug outs' for the System 1 om the ARIA softeware/shop site.

[fmr]

Wouldn't it be just as simple as giving a license for those two VSTs to the system-8 owners? Just as you would for someone who gained permanent ownership of a plugin after a year of cloud subscription? Doesn't seem like a difficult administrative task since they already must have that capability.

Launching in the wild a version of Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 without any kind of copy protection doesn't seem like a wise decision, don't you agree?

Currently, the protection is generic, doesn't cover individually any plug-in.

[fmr]

Don't forget the System 1 and System 1m owners!!

SH-101, SH02 Promars and System 100 were all origonaly 'plug outs' for the System 1 om the ARIA softeware/shop site.

The same problem arises. Without some copy protection scheme (currently they only have the subscription, which is generic) I don't see how they can release new versions for the owners.

That said, I guess they could simply implement the previous Roland copy protection that was being used (don't know what prevents them of doing it). Anyway, I think updated versions should be released for the owners of the previous versions, and that would be beneficial both for users and for Roland. Besides, the new company publicly commited to do that.

[SLiC]

Don't forget the System 1 and System 1m owners!!

SH-101, SH02 Promars and System 100 were all origonaly 'plug outs' for the System 1 om the ARIA softeware/shop site.

The same problem arises. Without some copy protection scheme (currently they only have the subscription, which is generic) I don't see how they can release new versions for the owners.

That said, I guess they could simply implement the previous Roland copy protection that was being used (don't know what prevents them of doing it). Anyway, I think updated versions should be released for the owners of the previous versions, and that would beneficial both for users and for Roland. Besides, the new company publicly commited to do that.

Under FAQ-

I have already purchased a PLUG-OUT Synth from the Roland Contents Store- what does the change to a subscription service under Roland Cloud mean for me?

First, thank you for being a Roland fan and customer- we want to make you happy! You may continue to use your current synth(s) license(s) without interruption (and if you choose to do this, please do not install the Roland Cloud versions of any synths you own- a different copy protection system will create some challenges!). In the very near future we will be announcing a special Roland Cloud offer for existing Roland Contents Store customers- please stay tuned!

[fmr]

... In the very near future we will be announcing a special Roland Cloud offer for existing Roland Contents Store customers- please stay tuned! [/i]

Precisely... but that leaves Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 out of the equation, though (and I guess all users of System-1 and System-8 since I don't know to which extent they can be considered "Roland Contents Store customers")

There is another thing too - They mention "a special Roland Cloud offer" which may imply special subscription conditions, but NOT free updates (another con).

Just out of curiosity - what was the copy protection scheme for users of System-1 plug-outs? Was it tied to the hardware or some kind of challenge-response?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Wouldn't it be just as simple as giving a license for those two VSTs to the system-8 owners? Just as you would for someone who gained permanent ownership of a plugin after a year of cloud subscription? Doesn't seem like a difficult administrative task since they already must have that capability.

Launching in the wild a version of Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 without any kind of copy protection doesn't seem like a wise decision, don't you agree?

Currently, the protection is generic, doesn't cover individually any plug-in.

I don't follow. After a year of cloud subscription, you get to chose a plugin that you own in perpetuity. So let's say I chose the Jupiter-8. So now I can quit the roland could if I want and keep using the Jupiter-8. So it must have some kind of copy protection allowing me to use that one but not the others right? If this were not the case then you wouldn't actually get to use the plugin you own. or you'd get to use all of them. Neither of which seems plausible.

[braj]

You have to have consecutive months as well, not something you can put down after 10 months and pick up a few months later with your equity intact, I do not like that at all.

That´s wrong. Is googling really that hard before making false statements?

Is politely correcting me so hard for you? Sorry I was mistaken, that's what I remembered hearing.

[fmr]

I don't follow. After a year of cloud subscription, you get to chose a plugin that you own in perpetuity. So let's say I chose the Jupiter-8.

If and when we reach that, I guess they will have to have something yes. But it isn't the case... yet.

So now I can quit the roland could if I want and keep using the Jupiter-8. So it must have some kind of copy protection allowing me to use that one but not the others right? If this were not the case then you wouldn't actually get to use the plugin you own. or you'd get to use all of them. Neither of which seems plausible.

"NOW", noone already have one year of subscription, so, the problem doesn't exist... yet. (but it will exist in just a few months - three, maybe, I'm not sure... so, I guess they have till then to come up with a solution). I just have like six months of subscription now, so, I still have six months until face it.

[beely]

After a year of cloud subscription, you get to chose a plugin that you own in perpetuity. So let's say I chose the Jupiter-8. So now I can quit the roland could if I want and keep using the Jupiter-8. So it must have some kind of copy protection allowing me to use that one but not the others right?

I would guess that the system remains the same as it is now - except that when the "owned" plugin does it's regular licence check, the license server responds with an "Authorised" response, regardless of whether your account is a current paying subscriber.

In other words, I suspect that "owning" the plugin won't stop it requiring regular online license checks, just like all the other plugins.

Of course, they may implement a new copy protection system between now and their first year anniversary, to support offline use, but I expect things will likely stay as they are now.

[fmr]

I would guess that the system remains the same as it is now - except that when the "owned" plugin does it's regular licence check, the license server responds with an "Authorised" response, regardless of whether your account is a current paying subscriber.

In other words, I suspect that "owning" the plugin won't stop it requiring regular online license checks, just like all the other plugins.

I confess I didn't thought of that possibility, but yes, they can follow that path too (although that way isn't exactly a regular "authorization", since it will require periodic and frequent online check). OTOH, that could also work as a kind of "gentle push" to keep subscribers (I hope we are not giving them ideas)

[beely]

Roland is not making the VST versions, Roland Cloud is.

I don't know the reality any more than you, or anyone else here does.

(Blanket statements like the above, proclaiming to know the truth with no actual facts, are misleading.)

My perception though is that Roland were making plugins before this Roland Cloud thing became visible, that were running on the System 1 hardware (which again was well before the Cloud thing) and the subsequent plugins are using the same frameworks and affordances - so I have no reason to think that the main plugins are done by anyone other than Roland.

(It's possible that Virtual Sonics were the actual developers of Roland's plugins starting before the Cloud thing, but Roland doesn't really have a history of outsourcing instrument design to other companies, so that would be a stretch, imo).

When the Cloud thing happened, in combination with this other company, the website was rather poor for a Roland corporate offering, and other than some promises of things to come, they main products were:

- All of the existing Roland plugins that were available previously
- Some poor not-that-well sampled "Anthology" plugins that didn't refer to the instruments they sampled by look, feel, or trademark

So my perception was that the Cloud platform/service/website, and the Anthology plugins, were built by and provided by the Virtual Sonics Company, with Roland supplying their plugin catalog and branding.

(Again, I'm not asserting this to be true with blanket statements, I'm just expressing my thoughts and the reasoning why.)

So I'm still confident that Roland are the plugin developers, and are accessing their old code, chip designs, sample and sound content to make the plugins as authentic as they are...

[robotmonkey]

I would guess that the system remains the same as it is now - except that when the "owned" plugin does it's regular licence check, the license server responds with an "Authorised" response, regardless of whether your account is a current paying subscriber.

In other words, I suspect that "owning" the plugin won't stop it requiring regular online license checks, just like all the other plugins.

I confess I didn't thought of that possibility, but yes, they can follow that path too (although that way isn't exactly a regular "authorization", since it will require periodic and frequent online check). OTOH, that could also work as a kind of "gentle push" to keep subscribers (I hope we are not giving them ideas)

I've heard they'll send you the hardware version so you could use it offline.

[SLiC]

You have to have consecutive months as well, not something you can put down after 10 months and pick up a few months later with your equity intact, I do not like that at all.

That´s wrong. Is googling really that hard before making false statements?

Is politely correcting me so hard for you? Sorry I was mistaken, that's what I remembered hearing.

I wouldn't worry about it. you probably did!- Roland have been changing the terms, FAQs and other service description son the fly since the launch, I have to say generally for her better (probably from feedback from forums!) Its an idea in development!

If they can give Roland store members/hardware owners who bought the plug ins free (through the cloud subscription plan) and maybe throw in a free year for being easily adaptors they will win a few friends (just in case they are reading this forum, )