Roland JV-1080 finally, as virtual instrument!

[Caine123]

Sysex to bin converter ?
Is it possible?

See my previous comments on this early in this (and the other) thread.

Short answer: I'm looking into it.

Beely i wanted to express my appreciation for ur time and efforts! Especially im interested in this!!! So. Many thx

And also ingo!!!

[Ingonator]

Personally i have just reached a point where i no longer care much about comparions but just use the JV-1080 plugin "as is" as if it would be just a new synth on it's own. For me if i start seeing this plugin independent of what it tries to emulate it is quite amazing. Of course i know that at KVR all synths will be compared to everything even if the new synth is no emulation at all.
For several people it might be important if this plugin nails a hardware JV-1080 propelrly or not and of course that's a valid point (like with emulations of analog synths).


Even if this plugin uses PCM waves that are based on sampling certain hardware synths you are able to get results with the JV-1080 plugin that you could hardly get with the original hardware synths that were sampled. Even if you would be able to get close with using layers of that other synth and adding external FXs the question is if it would be really worth the effort. In terms of using analog emulations to get a similar sound the questions is also if the increased CPU use is really worth it (for example using the Jupiter-8 plugin to recreate JV-1080 plugin patches based on Jupiter-8 samples).

If you reached a point where a sample based synth goes beyond what was possible with the real thing it indeed could be superior to having a properly modeled version of the original synth.
Of course there are many cases where only using a proper analog modeled synth could deliver the best result for a specific sound you want to get. In that case the JV-1080 plugin might be indeed the wrong choice. Using Osc Sync and a variable Pulse and/or PWM are obvious examples besides others (while there might be samples that use those features whie a sample could only use fixed settings with them).

With the JV-1080 plugin patch that i tried to recreate with Repro-5 i alraedy mentioned that for that specific patch i prefer the result i got from JV-1080. Of course Repro-5 is much better as an analog emulation but does that really matter if i could get a patch from JV-1080 that you like more in direct comparison?
As i already tried to point out it is also quite easy to do a patch in Repro-5 or other analog emulations like e.g. Roland Cloud Jupiter-8 that are very difficult or impossible to replicate with the JV-1080 plugin.

At the end it really just matters what your desired sound is for a specific patch. Besides all that even with a bunch of proper analog emualations available now (including those at Roland Cloud) it could be still an interesting challange to make a ROMpler sound close to patches from an analog synth. Why would Roland include the bunch of samples based on analog synth anyway if they did not intend to having an option to replicate such sounds with that ROMpler? A lot more of such samples are included with expansion boards avaiable for the hardware (including the famous vintage synth expansion).


I already mentioned i will no longer post comparisons to other synths when psoting audio demos of patches i created with the JV-1080 plugin as this will just lead to trouble and/or misunderstandings anyway.



PS:
If KVR members david.beholder or Aliens reply to this post i will not reply to them. As alraedy mentined today i had added them to my ignore list.

[Ingonator]

Sysex to bin converter ?
Is it possible?

See my previous comments on this early in this (and the other) thread.

Short answer: I'm looking into it.

Beely i wanted to express my appreciation for ur time and efforts! Especially im interested in this!!! So. Many thx

And also ingo!!!

If beely could do a Sysex converter like with the D-50 it would be indeed amazing. In this case it might be a bit more complex if he wants to add compatibility for multiple Roland ROMmplers.

Of course it would be also amazing if Roland adds Sysex import with a future update like done with the D-50 (so there is some hope they will do it...).

[Dip200]

Am I doing something wrong or does Roland seriously want my Audio Workstation to be online everytime I use their JV 1080 plugin ??

@Ingonator and all who like the plugin and want to dig deeper I can recommend the Roland Fantom Tweak Book. These synths are pretty deep.

[beely]

Beely i wanted to express my appreciation for ur time and efforts! Especially im interested in this!!! So. Many thx

No probs. I also appreciate Ingo's efforts in looking into this - for those interested in these products, it's quite useful to be able to categorically define what it *actually* is (and what it isn't), when in some cases it's not quite so defined...

[Ingonator]

Am I doing something wrong or does Roland seriously want my Audio Workstation to be online everytime I use their JV 1080 plugin ??

What is your specific problem with the plugin? Does the plugin always ask for a re-authorization if you restart it?
Usually my PC is always connected to internet but when i unplug the internet connection the plugin still works nicely even after re-starting the host.
I am currently using the 64-bit VST2 plugin with Live 9.7.5 64-bit in Windows 10 64-bit.

The first time you use the plugin you have to enter the authorization which usually is your Roland Cloud acount login data. AFAIK they changed this in a way that you only have to be online once a week. Then you might have to re-enter the password of your account.

@Ingonator and all who like the plugin and want to dig deeper I can recommend the Roland Fantom Tweak Book. These synths are pretty deep.

The synthesis engine is indeed complex for this kind of synth and offers quite a lot of options. Having used comparable hardware synths in the past (includingsome Roland ones) i am not really afraid about the amount of features. If you just use the features you need and ignore teh others programming the plugin could be quite simple.

The copy/paste feature for the tones is quite useful too (In the UTILITY menu).
I am using that also to create detuned versions of the other tones/layers.

The factory presets of the plugin do not use the advanced features so for those who only use the presets those advanced features might not be obvious. On the other hand it should be possible to notice a difference in overall sound quality compared to the real JV-1080.

[tedannemann]

@Ingonator
Many thanks for digging that deep into the details and differences. Highly appreciated!

[beely]

Have to say, (unscientifically) flipping between the JV-1080 plugin and the XV-5080 (digital I/O) on the same presets when level matched, there is hardly much difference at all.

Which is pretty amazing.

Edit: (Disclaimer: Non scientific observational test at this point)
So, on headphones, the plugin and the 5080 via digi i/o sound identical to me - I can't tell them apart, comparing presets. I've found one preset that had a different delay setting (a longer delay) than the same preset on the plugin, which was shorter/faster.

All the FX, distortions, reverbs etc in the patches that I've tried sound identical.

Given that it sounds the same digitally as the XV-5080, has all the 5080 waveforms and most of the FX (I haven't checked these in detail yet, though the list in the plugin appears to be a bit different to the 5080), we can say that the plugin is in fact more or less a 5080-spec instrument, at least, and therefore sounds *better* than the original JV-1080 which had lower quality waves.

Things the plugin *doesn't* have compared to the hardware include:

- Performance/Multi mode (you can layer multiple instances via your host for this, but obviously can't directly use the multi presets)

- The ability to load your own samples (my XV-5080 has 128MB sample ram) and to use your own samples and/or Roland/Akai format libraries - this is a cool 5080 feature - so you could, for example, run your own audio through the FX, or load up your 5080 with eg Korg Wavestation waves and run them through the Roland engine.

- The ability to use expansions (though these are still expensive to buy and are of questionable value) - although maybe that might come to the plugin in the future.

[Ingonator]

With the JV-1080 plugin I have created a lush strings pad using one of the "JP Strings" PCM waves, 4 detuned tones/layers (with help of the tone copy/paste feature) and a Bandpass filter (BPF) in all 4 tones.
A "chorus like" effect was done just with detuning the tones (one tone is an octave lower), a little panning in the TVAs and additionally using the "analog feel" parameter.
The only FX used is the built-in Plate Reverb besides an external Limiter FX from Live 9.

Here is the audio demo:
JV-1080 plugin_IW - BP Strings 1 - Demo 1



UPDATE:
This is a demo of the same patch where the sample in all 4 tones is exchanged with the "JV Strings L" and "JV Strings R" stereo samples that use a different sample for both stereo channels (in all 4 tones you got a selection for "L" =mono and "R" samples):
JV-1080 plugin_IW - BP Strings 2 - Demo 1

In the original JV-1080 2 tones seemed to be necessray to use the stereo samples in a similar way. In the plugin you could do that with a single tone and the dedicated L and R PCM waves selection (like in the XV-3080/5080).

[sinemotor]

Have to say, (unscientifically) flipping between the JV-1080 plugin and the XV-5080 (digital I/O) on the same presets when level matched, there is hardly much difference at all.

Which is pretty amazing.

That's nice to hear. One of the main criticism about the original JV-1080 was the fact that PCM samples were sampled at 32 kHz. On the VST, it seems that Roland took the 44.1 kHz samples from the XV (or Integra 7 even).

As Ingo mentioned, FXs are from the Fantom X. So Roland made a mashup synth right there lol. It's not like I'm surprised by that since Roland has been recycling its Rompler engine for 20 years now. I love those machines but it shows their habit to do weird and obscure marketing stuff sometimes...

Anyway, I just wonder if they gonna release SR-JV and SRX expansion boards(I guess those are compatible then. They are featured in the Integra 7 iirc) as well since they were so great. They've released the Orchestra exp. as "Anthology Orchestra" on the Cloud but to me it's a weird concept to make a 8gb sample library of a 8 mb card lol.

- The ability to use expansions (though these are still expensive to buy and are of questionable value) - although maybe that might come to the plugin in the future.

On Axial.com (http://axial.roland.com/category/juno-d ... 88_xps-30/) you can download SRX expansions for free if you have one of their Workstation (Juno-DS / XPS-30 / FA-06...). It's a .bin file btw. So maybe...

[beely]

On Axial.com (Roland's website for presets/tones libraries) you can download SRX expansions for free if you have one of their Workstation (Juno-DS / XPS-30 / FA-06...). It's a .bin file btw. So maybe...

That's "http://axial.roland.com", not axial.com, which is, ahem, a different kind of plug-in... (!)

But yes - those bin files are the same size as the "InternalA.bin" file in the 1080 plugin (33.6 MB). They might even be compatible...

[sinemotor]

That's "http://axial.roland.com", not axial.com, which is, ahem, something altogether different... (!

ah ah jeez !

I edited the link thanks ; )

[sinemotor]

I can see some sort of pattern from Roland with their Romplers. I knew the JV-1080 GUI looked familiar.

Actually, they took inspiration from one of their old Synth Module. The SonicCell (2009). But also the software editor for the Juno Di or the Fantom G which all came around the same time.

So I checked those synths out of curiosity (and newer synths like Juno DS / FA) and even though there are some differences here and there, they all share the same base architecture (4 WG+TVF+TVA / patch + 2 LFOs), the same effects (a couple of them have exactly the 78 also in the JV VST) and have lots of waveforms in common too.

Then I guess the JV-1080 VST has the potential to get more waveforms and patches.

[Caine123]

Have to say, (unscientifically) flipping between the JV-1080 plugin and the XV-5080 (digital I/O) on the same presets when level matched, there is hardly much difference at all.

Which is pretty amazing.

Edit: (Disclaimer: Non scientific observational test at this point)
So, on headphones, the plugin and the 5080 via digi i/o sound identical to me - I can't tell them apart, comparing presets. I've found one preset that had a different delay setting (a longer delay) than the same preset on the plugin, which was shorter/faster.

All the FX, distortions, reverbs etc in the patches that I've tried sound identical.

Given that it sounds the same digitally as the XV-5080, has all the 5080 waveforms and most of the FX (I haven't checked these in detail yet, though the list in the plugin appears to be a bit different to the 5080), we can say that the plugin is in fact more or less a 5080-spec instrument, at least, and therefore sounds *better* than the original JV-1080 which had lower quality waves.

Things the plugin *doesn't* have compared to the hardware include:

- Performance/Multi mode (you can layer multiple instances via your host for this, but obviously can't directly use the multi presets)

- The ability to load your own samples (my XV-5080 has 128MB sample ram) and to use your own samples and/or Roland/Akai format libraries - this is a cool 5080 feature - so you could, for example, run your own audio through the FX, or load up your 5080 with eg Korg Wavestation waves and run them through the Roland engine.

- The ability to use expansions (though these are still expensive to buy and are of questionable value) - although maybe that might come to the plugin in the future.

Thx a lot!
So maybe i can finally reduce another unit?
I sold my d550 cause i never used it efficiently and for me clumsy feeling. But i love the sounds!!!!
The xv5080 i bought because of command and conquer and i also didnt use it too much :/ so i would be happy to fiully! Replace it with a vst too and have all the presets too.

[Aliens]

If KVR members david.beholder or Aliens reply to this post i will not reply to them. As alraedy mentined today i had added them to my ignore list.

That's twice now you've posted I'm on your naughty list

The drama of it all