The reason I ask is because I recently purchased a Moog synth sample library with more sampler options than I've come across before. The options are:
- Ableton
- HALion
- Kontakt
- Reason NN-XT
- Samples (1500+ WAV files)
- SFZ
- Structure
Which software sampler do you prefer for classic/vintage synth samples?
-
- KVRAF
- 1787 posts since 22 Feb, 2014
Does the type of program material matter to you when choosing a sampler, or do you always use the same one?
The reason I ask is because I recently purchased a Moog synth sample library with more sampler options than I've come across before. The options are:
The reason I ask is because I recently purchased a Moog synth sample library with more sampler options than I've come across before. The options are:
-
- KVRist
- 277 posts since 2 Apr, 2016
Falcon has become my go to choice for a sampler in most situations now.
Classic/vintage synth samples benefit from the fantastic effects on-board and the modulation options are quite intense.
Also the ability to combine these classic tones with the synthesis modules included with Falcon can breath new life into old (but good) sounds.
Tal-sampler would be another option for simplicity, speed and dac emulation.
Both are getting better all the time and both will accept your .sfz
Classic/vintage synth samples benefit from the fantastic effects on-board and the modulation options are quite intense.
Also the ability to combine these classic tones with the synthesis modules included with Falcon can breath new life into old (but good) sounds.
Tal-sampler would be another option for simplicity, speed and dac emulation.
Both are getting better all the time and both will accept your .sfz
-
- KVRAF
- 1770 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy
I don't know all of those samplers but, given the choice, I think I'd use a well featured sampler, like Kontakt (the de-facto standard for sample libraries) or Halion (I have this one, though I'm still on version five). Some of those samplers are host-specific, so they could make sense if you're really into that specific daw.
As a general rule for playing back libraries, I want a good quality sample playback engine, good filters and maybe also good effects (but I can always use third-party plugins). It doesn't matter if it's a piano library or a vintage synth library, I always want to play back the samples with the best quality avaible.
If I'm looking for some specific features or a particular colour in order to do some creative sampling, then it's another subject (for example, I like the TAL Sampler for this reason). But for general-purpose sample playback, just find a good sampler and try to stick with it as much as possible, so your library is consolidated in one unique place instead of being fragmented between a few samplers; this way you'll have all your patches ready at hand (and you don't need to remember which sampler has a certain patch and then switch sampler).
As a general rule for playing back libraries, I want a good quality sample playback engine, good filters and maybe also good effects (but I can always use third-party plugins). It doesn't matter if it's a piano library or a vintage synth library, I always want to play back the samples with the best quality avaible.
If I'm looking for some specific features or a particular colour in order to do some creative sampling, then it's another subject (for example, I like the TAL Sampler for this reason). But for general-purpose sample playback, just find a good sampler and try to stick with it as much as possible, so your library is consolidated in one unique place instead of being fragmented between a few samplers; this way you'll have all your patches ready at hand (and you don't need to remember which sampler has a certain patch and then switch sampler).
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1787 posts since 22 Feb, 2014
In this case, I'm not so interested in creative sampling because it has already been done for me. While I do intend to use the WAV samples in other software, I'd rather not use them to build an instrument in another format, though I'm open to that.sin night wrote:If I'm looking for some specific features or a particular colour in order to do some creative sampling, then it's another subject (for example, I like the TAL Sampler for this reason). But for general-purpose sample playback, just find a good sampler and try to stick with it as much as possible, so your library is consolidated in one unique place instead of being fragmented between a few samplers; this way you'll have all your patches ready at hand (and you don't need to remember which sampler has a certain patch and then switch sampler).
I'm also interested to know if any of the options I listed in the OP offer any advantages for working with classic/vintage synth samples such as analog modeled/inspired filters, LFOs, envelopes, effects, or other parameters which approximate the sounds and experience of working with the physical instrument.
Thanks for the feedback, so far.
-
- KVRAF
- 1770 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy
If you just need to play the patches supplied with the library, any sampler will be fine. I'd probably use a sampler which is not tied to a specific daw (so I can freely move between different platforms, should I need to), but that's just me.
About analog modeled features (filters, envelopes, lfo and so on), I'm not aware of any sampler except TAL Sampler (it offers some analog based envelopes as an option, but I don't think they are modeled after any specific model). Maybe SampleTank has something (thanks to Synthonik), but I don't know about the import/editing features (I guess they are highly limited, as it has always been... it's more a rompler).
Maybe Kontakt offers something (at least filter wise)? I don't know, but if you're looking for anything, Kontakt is usually your first stop and best bet.
About Halion, I can tell you something about version 5 (I don't know about version 6, I didn't upgrade). The filters are very flexible in my opinion, but are not very characterful. I often reach for the drive knob when I make a patch out of samples taken from my analog synth: the result becomes warmer but... the filter doesn't sound like a Moog (or any other analog synth that I'm aware of). Definitely light years away from a Moog (I own a Minitaur, Mother 32 and MF-101 to compare).
Looking at the workflow, the experience is probably closer on something like NNXT, because the gui is really simple and straighforward, so you have direct access to things like filters and envelopes as you would in a standard subtractive synth. Probably, the same result can be achieved on Kontakt or Halion 6 if you script the gui (otherwise the controls are hidden into tabs... you can use macros controls on Halion - which is a powerful feature - but it's not the same thing as having all the important controls clearly layed out in a single window)...
I don't know about the other samplers of the list.
In my opinion, samplers on computer are rather clean, so I don't expect analog modeled features. When they offer emulations, they seem more focused on "old school samplers" (various lo-fi modes) than anything else.
By the way, I'm not really into samplers, so I may be wrong on some points... I don't expect to use a sampler to get a good emulation of a synth out of samples, I look at them more as tools to build something else out of a basis offered by a synth.
Just my opinions, of course!
About analog modeled features (filters, envelopes, lfo and so on), I'm not aware of any sampler except TAL Sampler (it offers some analog based envelopes as an option, but I don't think they are modeled after any specific model). Maybe SampleTank has something (thanks to Synthonik), but I don't know about the import/editing features (I guess they are highly limited, as it has always been... it's more a rompler).
Maybe Kontakt offers something (at least filter wise)? I don't know, but if you're looking for anything, Kontakt is usually your first stop and best bet.
About Halion, I can tell you something about version 5 (I don't know about version 6, I didn't upgrade). The filters are very flexible in my opinion, but are not very characterful. I often reach for the drive knob when I make a patch out of samples taken from my analog synth: the result becomes warmer but... the filter doesn't sound like a Moog (or any other analog synth that I'm aware of). Definitely light years away from a Moog (I own a Minitaur, Mother 32 and MF-101 to compare).
Looking at the workflow, the experience is probably closer on something like NNXT, because the gui is really simple and straighforward, so you have direct access to things like filters and envelopes as you would in a standard subtractive synth. Probably, the same result can be achieved on Kontakt or Halion 6 if you script the gui (otherwise the controls are hidden into tabs... you can use macros controls on Halion - which is a powerful feature - but it's not the same thing as having all the important controls clearly layed out in a single window)...
I don't know about the other samplers of the list.
In my opinion, samplers on computer are rather clean, so I don't expect analog modeled features. When they offer emulations, they seem more focused on "old school samplers" (various lo-fi modes) than anything else.
By the way, I'm not really into samplers, so I may be wrong on some points... I don't expect to use a sampler to get a good emulation of a synth out of samples, I look at them more as tools to build something else out of a basis offered by a synth.
Just my opinions, of course!
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1787 posts since 22 Feb, 2014
Opinions seem to be mixed, but no doubt Kontakt is practically an industry standard.sin night wrote:Maybe Kontakt offers something (at least filter wise)? I don't know, but if you're looking for anything, Kontakt is usually your first stop and best bet.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=478754
SampleTank/Syntronik are kind of funky, too.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=485111&p=6889049&hi ... t#p6889049
I'm not really looking for a spot on emulation, just trying to find the one(s) that get most things right. Good point about NN-XT, though.sin night wrote: By the way, I'm not really into samplers, so I may be wrong on some points... I don't expect to use a sampler to get a good emulation of a synth out of samples, I look at them more as tools to build something else out of a basis offered by a synth.
And I very much appreciate them.sin night wrote:Just my opinions, of course!
-
- KVRAF
- 5391 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
1. Morgana by 112db. If you like lo-fi crunch, this is the one. It only does that one thing, but does it well. TAL has more sonic range, but a softer sound. Half price ($85) now:
https://www.112db.com/vintage/morgana/
2. Cyclone by SonicCharge, a free Yamaha TX16W clone, so there are a LOT of nice 'vintage-sized' libraries available in its fxp format. The GUI is realistic, thus fiddly.
https://soniccharge.com/forum/topic/431
http://soniccharge.com/download?~cyclone
3. TX16Wx by CWITEC, a free-limited/pay-full "modernised classic" (but I haven't tried to import those TX16W fxp files):
http://www.tx16wx.com/features
4. MUX by MuLab. This plugin is a fully modular vintage synth and modern sampler, so way more flexible than the above, e.g. in one module you can layer a multisample and two oscillators with infinite unison modes and harmonic editing, modulate parameters etc:
http://www.mutools.com/mux-product.html
https://www.112db.com/vintage/morgana/
2. Cyclone by SonicCharge, a free Yamaha TX16W clone, so there are a LOT of nice 'vintage-sized' libraries available in its fxp format. The GUI is realistic, thus fiddly.
https://soniccharge.com/forum/topic/431
http://soniccharge.com/download?~cyclone
3. TX16Wx by CWITEC, a free-limited/pay-full "modernised classic" (but I haven't tried to import those TX16W fxp files):
http://www.tx16wx.com/features
4. MUX by MuLab. This plugin is a fully modular vintage synth and modern sampler, so way more flexible than the above, e.g. in one module you can layer a multisample and two oscillators with infinite unison modes and harmonic editing, modulate parameters etc:
http://www.mutools.com/mux-product.html
F E E D
Y O U R
F L O W
Y O U R
F L O W
-
- KVRist
- 399 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
I had many hardware samplers in the past and still own five. TAL-Sampler is my tool of choice for vintage like sound - it is a fantastic piece of software. The DAC emulations are fantastic - I can mangle samples and it reminds me really on EMU II sound 'quality'. TAL-Sampler gets my highest recommendation. For high end sound quality purposes and surround work I use Halion 6. I never liked Kontakt really, but it is a standard for libraries - that's the reason I use it too.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1787 posts since 22 Feb, 2014
I've been considering TAL-Sampler for some time, but couldn't justify it due to the number of software samplers I already have. You guys have sold me on it, though.
Thanks, everyone, and Happy New Year.
Thanks, everyone, and Happy New Year.
-
- KVRAF
- 5666 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
Personally, I'd choose the SFZ format and Alchemy (although, not listed in your OP).
The way samples can be easily mixed, layered and expanded with the VA engine can give superb results very fast!
I particularly enjoy how easy it is to make cool patches that can be 'morphed' or mixed in real time, which can give a unique take on a layered analog sound.
In absence of Alchemy, I'd choose any sampler with a proper synthesis engine, so that would be Halion on your list. This is so that I could add additional VA layers to the samples, if I so desire. But, i understand it's not what you are interested in, so this is just my own preference (samples + VA, even if on the surface the 'VA' part of the plugin may not be of the latest 'analog modelling' quality).
The way samples can be easily mixed, layered and expanded with the VA engine can give superb results very fast!
I particularly enjoy how easy it is to make cool patches that can be 'morphed' or mixed in real time, which can give a unique take on a layered analog sound.
In absence of Alchemy, I'd choose any sampler with a proper synthesis engine, so that would be Halion on your list. This is so that I could add additional VA layers to the samples, if I so desire. But, i understand it's not what you are interested in, so this is just my own preference (samples + VA, even if on the surface the 'VA' part of the plugin may not be of the latest 'analog modelling' quality).
-
- KVRAF
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
Kontakt, Halion, Falcon all have great possibilities and are flexible enough to get very good results.
Less spread samplers might do the job as well. If it's only for your personnal use, you could try them, and see if they fit your needs, while if it's for commercial work, working with a massively spread engine clearly have it's benefits.
Less spread samplers might do the job as well. If it's only for your personnal use, you could try them, and see if they fit your needs, while if it's for commercial work, working with a massively spread engine clearly have it's benefits.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1787 posts since 22 Feb, 2014
Hmm, I only have Alchemy Player, but it does load SFZ files. I was thinking of trying sforzando, as well, but you make a good point about layering synthesis with the samples. I think Dimension Pro is the best I have which both has a synth engine and loads SFZ files, but I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the suggestion.himalaya wrote:Personally, I'd choose the SFZ format and Alchemy (although, not listed in your OP).