Than give the Bitwig chance, right now on the sale.progtronic wrote:I'd like to try Live, but the Suite is way out of my price range (even at the current sales price). If it ever goes to 50+% off, I'll consider it.
Cakewalk Sonar Refuges: what's next?
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG-
- KVRAF
- 2140 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA
Give them all a shot. As far as I know, there's a demo for just about every DAW.
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- KVRian
- 667 posts since 27 Jul, 2010
Now that they've finally added a proper, per track, ms+- time delay function (timeshift) in the latest 2.2 update.. I'll consider it.Zexila wrote:Than give the Bitwig chance, right now on the sale.progtronic wrote:I'd like to try Live, but the Suite is way out of my price range (even at the current sales price). If it ever goes to 50+% off, I'll consider it.
I don't use outboard midi instruments.. but I definitely need time delay for all my guitar and orchestral libraries. Basically, anything with a pre-pick/tone delay.. or any percussion that anticipates the beat (like shakers), needs some standard form of negative delay compensation.
Anyway.. how was that not a day one feature?!
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- KVRian
- 872 posts since 25 Aug, 2006
They was a recent poll at the Cakewalk forums on what everyone was going to, Studio One had a big lead, 191 to nearest competition 33(Cubase). I went with Waveform but am keeping an eye on Mixcraft, the audio envelope to midi cc function looks really cool.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3716103
http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3716103
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- KVRAF
- 2140 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA
Hmm, I would've thought Mixcraft would be the most comfortable for Sonar users. Especially with ARA and Melodyne for $100. That's what Melodyne costs on its own.
I'm not in love with the tiny text and icons, but if they ever scale the interface I'll be sorely tempted. Not that S1 and Cubase aren't very capable DAWs.
I'm not in love with the tiny text and icons, but if they ever scale the interface I'll be sorely tempted. Not that S1 and Cubase aren't very capable DAWs.
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- KVRist
- 40 posts since 4 Mar, 2004
Has anyone tried any of of these potential Sonar replacements with Linux? My Sonar DAW is the last thing forcing me to use windows, and my vote would go to a program with native linux support, if it exists (and works).
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- KVRAF
- 2140 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA
Ardour, Bitwig to name two...
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- KVRian
- 872 posts since 25 Aug, 2006
Waveform runs on Linux and Raspberry Pi.
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- KVRAF
- 9528 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
There is also a Reaper linux version, at landoleet dot org,MurzimStem wrote:Has anyone tried any of of these potential Sonar replacements with Linux? My Sonar DAW is the last thing forcing me to use windows, and my vote would go to a program with native linux support, if it exists (and works).
a linux Harrison Mixbus, a linux Renoise, a linux Traction, and an actively developed
and easily used vst wrapper called linvst. The linux Reaper with linvst wrapped vsts
provides a lot of windows plugin successes, without dragging along the in-laws
The windows version of wine-staging has made huge advances, and using it
with the windows Reaper is great fun, if you like Reaper. Wine is at the
3.0 feature freeze, and grinding out bug-fix release candidates on fast order.
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- KVRist
- 252 posts since 18 Mar, 2007 from London
My Story:
Hardcore Sonar user since 1999. I'm also a longtime user of Propellerhead Reason from v1, now I'm on v10. I love it though I always used it Rewired in Sonar. I know I could have just started using Reason as my main DAW after Cakewalk went bust and ended further development of Sonar. But after a few days spent cursing Gibson
I thought it's time to open my eyes and look around what else is out there on the DAW market. And if I'm honest the choices are phenomenal.
After doing my research I was left with 3 DAW's I was really interested about for completely different reasons:
1. Presonus Studio One (it's workflow and aesthetics are the closest to Sonar with a bit of twist)
2. Cockos Reaper (I just loved the price-value ratio, and the idea of a super configurable DAW)
3. Bitwig Studio (I loved the potential of a completely new way of creative workflow compared to Sonar - arranger vs clip launcher /natively modular concept etc -)
After playing around with all 3 demo versions a bit (I have to say huge respect is due to Cockos for giving us a fully functional demo of Reaper, amazing company philosophy in this day and age ) here is what happened.
I've fell in love with Bitwig!
I've spent roughly 3 full days (8-10 hours a day) watching tutorials, trying out different things and now I'm enjoying myself working in this new environment enormously.
Everyone seems to be really scared of the amount of "relearning" involved when moving from one DAW to another, but it seems if you're comfortable in one DAW than a few days will be enough to migrate to any good DAW.
I'm a professional drummer, also playing the piano
. I'm used to work in my studio in a "linear way" very much with an instrumentalist/composer mindset. I'm usually excited about technology when it doesn't try to copy "reality" but rather when it does stuff that are either not possible or very difficult/time consuming to do otherwise. As a DAW, Bitwig is as exciting and as much fun and as much of a creativity booster as my first encounter with Propellerhead Reason was in 2001.
Yes, Bitwig is not perfect. (Why Sonar ever was? In fact what is perfect for everyone?)
Yes, Rewire is not supported in Bitwig
(but there are workarounds).
Yes, I'm sometimes annoyed because there are minor things I can do in Sonar in 2 seconds I still can't figure out properly in Bitwig.
But (for my own biggest surprise) I love the fact that it forced me to move in a new direction compared to my old ways of working in Sonar.
And most importantly (even though some of it's limitations compared to Sonar) I love the fact that working in Bitwig is HUGE FUN.
So Bitwig the company won me over. I'm honestly much happier taking a bit of a risk with them and support this small creative company, than shell out my money to a huge corporation. (In fact I bought it "used" here on kvraudio.)
Finally 3 advice:
1. Try the software you're interested in, don't listen to ramblings on forums. Usually, people using any tools really well don't have much time to spend on forums talking about their preferred tools, they'll be busy using those tools while others are talking about them.
2. In my opinion Bitwig is a phenomenal achievement for a small company, especially considering the software (at v2) is only in it's infancy. They deserve the attention of ex- Sonar users , so if you like Bitwig Studio than buy it, give them a chance to make it even better.
3. Also support Cockos by buying Reaper!
It's pricing is ridiculously generous. If there's something you can't do in Bitwig ( eg native video support) you can do it in Reaper (though in my case with a much bigger learning curve).
Top
Quick Reply
Hardcore Sonar user since 1999. I'm also a longtime user of Propellerhead Reason from v1, now I'm on v10. I love it though I always used it Rewired in Sonar. I know I could have just started using Reason as my main DAW after Cakewalk went bust and ended further development of Sonar. But after a few days spent cursing Gibson
I thought it's time to open my eyes and look around what else is out there on the DAW market. And if I'm honest the choices are phenomenal. After doing my research I was left with 3 DAW's I was really interested about for completely different reasons:
1. Presonus Studio One (it's workflow and aesthetics are the closest to Sonar with a bit of twist)
2. Cockos Reaper (I just loved the price-value ratio, and the idea of a super configurable DAW)
3. Bitwig Studio (I loved the potential of a completely new way of creative workflow compared to Sonar - arranger vs clip launcher /natively modular concept etc -)
After playing around with all 3 demo versions a bit (I have to say huge respect is due to Cockos for giving us a fully functional demo of Reaper, amazing company philosophy in this day and age
) here is what happened.I've fell in love with Bitwig!
I've spent roughly 3 full days (8-10 hours a day) watching tutorials, trying out different things and now I'm enjoying myself working in this new environment enormously. Everyone seems to be really scared of the amount of "relearning" involved when moving from one DAW to another, but it seems if you're comfortable in one DAW than a few days will be enough to migrate to any good DAW.
I'm a professional drummer, also playing the piano
. I'm used to work in my studio in a "linear way" very much with an instrumentalist/composer mindset. I'm usually excited about technology when it doesn't try to copy "reality" but rather when it does stuff that are either not possible or very difficult/time consuming to do otherwise. As a DAW, Bitwig is as exciting and as much fun and as much of a creativity booster as my first encounter with Propellerhead Reason was in 2001.Yes, Bitwig is not perfect. (Why Sonar ever was? In fact what is perfect for everyone?)
Yes, Rewire is not supported in Bitwig
(but there are workarounds). Yes, I'm sometimes annoyed because there are minor things I can do in Sonar in 2 seconds I still can't figure out properly in Bitwig.
But (for my own biggest surprise) I love the fact that it forced me to move in a new direction compared to my old ways of working in Sonar.
And most importantly (even though some of it's limitations compared to Sonar) I love the fact that working in Bitwig is HUGE FUN.
So Bitwig the company won me over. I'm honestly much happier taking a bit of a risk with them and support this small creative company, than shell out my money to a huge corporation. (In fact I bought it "used" here on kvraudio.)
Finally 3 advice:
1. Try the software you're interested in, don't listen to ramblings on forums. Usually, people using any tools really well don't have much time to spend on forums talking about their preferred tools, they'll be busy using those tools while others are talking about them.
2. In my opinion Bitwig is a phenomenal achievement for a small company, especially considering the software (at v2) is only in it's infancy. They deserve the attention of ex- Sonar users , so if you like Bitwig Studio than buy it, give them a chance to make it even better.
3. Also support Cockos by buying Reaper!
It's pricing is ridiculously generous. If there's something you can't do in Bitwig ( eg native video support) you can do it in Reaper (though in my case with a much bigger learning curve).Top
Quick Reply
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- KVRer
- 15 posts since 13 Feb, 2014
I've been using Cakewalk since the floppy disk era in the 90's. I am so upset with Gibson, I'm ready to burn every one of their guitars I come across... that whole cash grab, bait and switch, we promise lifetime updates for hundreds and hundreds of dollars and then, haha, tricked you... leaves me beyond p*ssed.
Now, on to the problem/question at hand...
In 2009 I started using Ableton Live as my primary DAW. Ableton Live can do things no other DAW can do, especially when you factor in MAX for live, WOW...
That being said, I am really disappointed Live 9 and Live 10 will not support VST3 or MPE. This is an epic fail and major shortcoming on Ableton's part.
For that reason, I kept using Sonar in a 2 rig system, running SMPTE/MIDI Clock synch from my RME interface and porting my VST3/MPE back into audio input channels on my Live PC for recording. This works well... but with no more support coming from Cakewalk, I too need to start looking elsewhere.
At this point I am looking at Cubase, Studio One, Bitwig and Reaper.
It seems Studio One's VST3/3.5 support may be suspect, but I really like their consoles...
Now, on to the problem/question at hand...
In 2009 I started using Ableton Live as my primary DAW. Ableton Live can do things no other DAW can do, especially when you factor in MAX for live, WOW...
That being said, I am really disappointed Live 9 and Live 10 will not support VST3 or MPE. This is an epic fail and major shortcoming on Ableton's part.
For that reason, I kept using Sonar in a 2 rig system, running SMPTE/MIDI Clock synch from my RME interface and porting my VST3/MPE back into audio input channels on my Live PC for recording. This works well... but with no more support coming from Cakewalk, I too need to start looking elsewhere.
At this point I am looking at Cubase, Studio One, Bitwig and Reaper.
It seems Studio One's VST3/3.5 support may be suspect, but I really like their consoles...
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- KVRian
- 888 posts since 31 May, 2008 from Australia
Why be upset at Gibson? Cakewalk is the one ultimately responsible and should therefore be the target of your emotions. It is Cakewalk who have been losing money year after year after year since the Roland days and before. What, do you expect a company, Gibson in this case, to keep pouring money into a losing proposition? to keep propping Cakewalk up while they continue to just lose money year after year after year?, would you personally keep pouring your own money into something that was just losing money for you? No, It's Cakewalks fault, not Gibsons that they couldn't make a product that enough people wanted to buy so as the company could actually make money.
Are all of SONAR's bugs, many of them long, long standing, it's idiosyncrasies and quirks, it's general flakiness, the need for a knowledge of numerous workarounds to stop SONAR from either crashing or the audio engine dropping out, is that all Gibson's fault as well? Cakewalk/SONAR wasn't really that popular, it's popularity was/is among a comparatively small group of aging users who live life at the Cakewalk Forums, very little new blood, very little done to attract new blood, Cakewalk/SONAR was doomed a long time ago, and Gibson should be praised for keeping Cakewalk/SONAR alive for the past couple of years, for propping it up even though it was continually loosing money, for giving Cakewalk/SONAR a few extra years. Even the mighty (ex) Gibson Sock Puppet, Craig Anderton said something along the lines of "Gibson didn't kill Cakewalk, they just buried it". And no, I am not a Gibson fan, I think they are overpriced, over rated, and quality is and has been lacking for a number of years now.
Are all of SONAR's bugs, many of them long, long standing, it's idiosyncrasies and quirks, it's general flakiness, the need for a knowledge of numerous workarounds to stop SONAR from either crashing or the audio engine dropping out, is that all Gibson's fault as well? Cakewalk/SONAR wasn't really that popular, it's popularity was/is among a comparatively small group of aging users who live life at the Cakewalk Forums, very little new blood, very little done to attract new blood, Cakewalk/SONAR was doomed a long time ago, and Gibson should be praised for keeping Cakewalk/SONAR alive for the past couple of years, for propping it up even though it was continually loosing money, for giving Cakewalk/SONAR a few extra years. Even the mighty (ex) Gibson Sock Puppet, Craig Anderton said something along the lines of "Gibson didn't kill Cakewalk, they just buried it". And no, I am not a Gibson fan, I think they are overpriced, over rated, and quality is and has been lacking for a number of years now.
Say 'NO' to Clap
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- KVRian
- 789 posts since 13 Aug, 2012 from it's all about location!
For all Sonar guys out there:
Presonus Studio One Version 3.5.5 Release Notes (January 30, 2018):
New features and improvements:
• Cakewalk SONAR keyboard shortcut template
You might find a new home there.
Presonus Studio One Version 3.5.5 Release Notes (January 30, 2018):
New features and improvements:
• Cakewalk SONAR keyboard shortcut template
You might find a new home there.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 3 Sep, 2017
Like many of you, I got the lifetime upgrade and now am looking for a replacement for Sonar.
So far I've been trying those DAW's that are trying to focus more on music creation than mixing. I had a copy of Ableton Live Lite from a hardware purchase. I liked the workflow, but I found that they don't support VST3 and don't plan on it any time soon. This is important to me because I am running 64 bit Win10 and hope to buy some better plugins such as UAD's stuff eventually. Not being able to take advantage of the new standard is just dumb. Then I just demo'd Reason because my buddy loved using it on his Mac and his PC. I really liked how visual it is and seems rather intuitive to creating music. Alas, it also doesn't support VST3 and so I was disappointed again.
It seems that I'm down to Cubase and Studio One. I was leaning a bit towards Cubase because it seemed similar in flow to Sonar without the annoying quirks of Sonar. And Steinberg defines the VST standard so it's hard to go wrong there for support. Then I read all the comments about how everyone loves S1, so I guess I have to at least try it. Both have crossgrades available. S1 is $125 cheaper at the moment.
I'm primarily a hobbyist doing sequencing and some light recording, but quality and being future-proof is really important to me. I want to be able to big if I someday decide to, even if I'm not mixing 100 tracks per song in my current efforts.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... crossgrade
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CubaseP95CG
I saw that Cubase needs a USB dongle just for the demo? That seems troublesome...
So far I've been trying those DAW's that are trying to focus more on music creation than mixing. I had a copy of Ableton Live Lite from a hardware purchase. I liked the workflow, but I found that they don't support VST3 and don't plan on it any time soon. This is important to me because I am running 64 bit Win10 and hope to buy some better plugins such as UAD's stuff eventually. Not being able to take advantage of the new standard is just dumb. Then I just demo'd Reason because my buddy loved using it on his Mac and his PC. I really liked how visual it is and seems rather intuitive to creating music. Alas, it also doesn't support VST3 and so I was disappointed again.
It seems that I'm down to Cubase and Studio One. I was leaning a bit towards Cubase because it seemed similar in flow to Sonar without the annoying quirks of Sonar. And Steinberg defines the VST standard so it's hard to go wrong there for support. Then I read all the comments about how everyone loves S1, so I guess I have to at least try it. Both have crossgrades available. S1 is $125 cheaper at the moment.
I'm primarily a hobbyist doing sequencing and some light recording, but quality and being future-proof is really important to me. I want to be able to big if I someday decide to, even if I'm not mixing 100 tracks per song in my current efforts.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... crossgrade
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CubaseP95CG
I saw that Cubase needs a USB dongle just for the demo? That seems troublesome...
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 3 Sep, 2017
So no demo for Studio One? I can't find anything. That's also troublesome...