KVR Audio

AMD · Post by **AMD** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 pm

Hi guys,

Do you think YouTube is a good way to protect your music compositions rights? If not what can you suggest instead?

Thanks to all of you in advance.

planetearth · Post by **planetearth** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:25 pm

YouTube has nothing to do with protecting your "music compositions rights". YouTube tries (and usually fails) to make sure that what's posted there is either owned by the person posting it, or has been cleared for posting. But it has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with protecting your rights.

To protect your rights, you need to register your composition and claim the copyright on it. The steps on how to do that vary, depending upon which country you live in, but you have to claim your copyright and register it as yours in all countries. And YouTube won't help you with that.

Steve

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:41 pm

planetearth wrote:YouTube tries (and usually fails) to make sure that what's posted there is either owned by the person posting it, or has been cleared for posting. But it has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with protecting your rights.

Only can applaud that decision, because they are getting better and more folks every day seek for good legitimate music to be featured in their videos, guess they learned their lesson after few silenced videos, more job for us I guess, at least for me.

JerGoertz · Post by **JerGoertz** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:02 am

It's my understanding that once a composition is expressed in a concrete form, such as a score, .mp3, or DAW project file, you automatically receive copyright of it. It can help prove you have copyright to register the song, but legally you have copyright as soon as the above condition is met.

fluffy_little_something · Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:19 am

I am no native speaker, but the thread title sounds wrong somehow

Rajiv · Post by **Rajiv** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:21 am

I think I get the question. (I have zero legal credentials, by the way). I do recall learning that one way to protect your written compositions is to mail it to yourself. That way, if a dispute ever arises, you have a sealed copy of the composition as well as a date from the postal office cancellation stamp. I think you are asking if YouTube serves the same purpose. Post a song on YouTube, and, assuming it never goes away, you have a copy and a post date. Whether that would hold up in a lawsuit or not is anyone's guess.

I think you would be better served putting your music composition on a CD and mailing it to yourself, if you really want to maintain proof that you wrote a particular piece of music at a particular point in time. There are fewer finger on it that way.

But, like I said before, I don't have any legal credentials. And I think it is really challenging, particularly with music, to prove that your composition idea was stolen. But your point makes sense... the more evidence you have that you created something original at a point in time, the better defense (or offense) you would likely have in litigation.

(Did I mention that I have zero legal credentials either in the US or any country on the globe?)

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:26 am

Timing is key. If you upload something in Youtube at least you will have a time stamp in the official domain so everyone can see when it was created and uploaded. If someone copy what you have done at a later date/time, at least you will have some kind of proof that you were the first one to create it.

In this day and age artists also "borrow" from each other, re-arrange it or give a new sound or twist to it. It's common practice. When I went to music academy in Sweden (100 years ago

) we learned that it's legal to borrow 4 bars of other peoples music. For modern dance music, uplifting, dubstep, etc, a whole track could basically be based on a 4 bar theme. I bought the master class pass and watched Joel, a.k.a DeadMouse master class and he talk about some of this as well.

Another issue is to win the battle. Let's say that I, who is a nob, make a track and some big shot artist or group would steal big chunks of my track, I think I would not stand much of a chance to win the battle.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:17 am

Do not use YouTube to prove ownership. Someone could file a DMCA take down request on your video and all evidence would be lost.

If you are in the US, there is a website dedicated to this: https://eco.copyright.gov The site is a little confusing. Register your music as a "work of the performing arts" (not "sound recording") to retain the copyright on composition and not just the audio.

I am sure there are similar websites in other countries.

AMD · Post by **AMD** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:33 am

Someone could file a DMCA take down request on your video and all evidence would be lost.

What does that mean?

AMD · Post by **AMD** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:38 am

It's my understanding that once a composition is expressed in a concrete form, such as a score, .mp3, or DAW project file, you automatically receive copyright of it. It can help prove you have copyright to register the song, but legally you have copyright as soon as the above condition is met.

You mean sending it to YouTube? And does that really solve the issue?

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:53 pm

AMD wrote:
Someone could file a DMCA take down request on your video and all evidence would be lost.
What does that mean?

Does Google not work for you?

http://www.dmca.com/FAQ/What-is-a-DMCA-Takedown

A DMCA Takedown is:

When content is removed from a website at the request of the owner of the content or the owner of the copyright of the content. It is a well established, accepted, internet standard followed by website owners and internet service providers.

Which means your YouTube video could be removed at anytime.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:12 pm

AMD wrote:
It's my understanding that once a composition is expressed in a concrete form, such as a score, .mp3, or DAW project file, you automatically receive copyright of it. It can help prove you have copyright to register the song, but legally you have copyright as soon as the above condition is met.
You mean sending it to YouTube? And does that really solve the issue?

No, of course not ... as explained earlier. Have a look into PRS and MCPS ... https://www.prsformusic.com/

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:14 pm

ATN69 wrote:When I went to music academy in Sweden (100 years ago ) we learned that it's legal to borrow 4 bars of other peoples music.

I've never heard of that in my life. It must be Swedish.

"The sample of "Super Freak" that forms the basis of the song [U Can't Touch This] led Rick James and other performers on the original record to file a lawsuit for infringement of copyright. The suit was settled out of court when Hammer agreed to credit James as a songwriter, effectively granting James millions of dollars in royalties."

Two-bar pattern. I don't know what this word "borrow" does there. When something has been established as copyrighted, taking it as your own when it isn't will tend to denote "stealing". Now, in 'classical' music one can take a theme and write variations on a theme by _ but it's a given that this will involve new writing.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:27 pm

But what determines winning or losing a case is the judge, finally.
It's been said, and said here that a chord progression or really anything other than a lead melody cannot be copyrighted. But a sampled bass line has lost twice I can think of off the top of my head. U Can't Touch This and Ice Ice Baby.

Robin Thicke lost a suit for cribbing things in the 'vibe' or the arrangement of a Marvin Gaye record.
Spirit has sued Zeppelin over Stairway, the chord thing in the beginning was stolen, they allege. And they're undoubtedly right about that bit. It wasn't very original of them to begin with however.

Whizz_Bomb · Post by **Whizz_Bomb** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:43 pm

I am a music hobbyist, but my day job is arranging intellectual property insurance for people and companies that want to have protection to defend or pursue IP (including copyright) legal actions against them. I did a law degree at university, and studied copyright law. I am not a qualified lawyer, I would add, and also only mention this background so that KVR members will realistically consider my comments about copyright.

Copyright laws vary from country to country, so you have to look at the exact law that applies to your own country. I am in the UK, and under English law copyright automatically arises when you create an original musical work and then “fix”it permanently into some form of medium. You do have to put it down somewhere, whether on manuscript paper, midi file, MP3 etc. If you record it (rather than just just say put it on manuscript paper) then the performance also has its own separate copyright from the copyright of the musical notes.

If you have copyright in any country that is a member of the Berne Convention (you can Google for a list but it covers most countries in the world) then you will automatically have copyright protection in all the other Berne Convention countries too.

So now, you have copyright. As it has not been registered into any formal legal system (only some countries have a copyright registration system, so you need to check in your country) you do need some form of evidence that you have copyright. Mailing it to yourself has often been recommended, however most lawyers would recommend doing more than this. You could send a digital version by email (or hard copy) to someone else that stores the email, preferably a lawyer, but if not then someone that would be a credible witness in court. Posting it on social media would provide some credible evidence that you created it, and also when you created it. It has entered the public domain then. People should not be able to apply to have it taken down unless they can demonstrate that you copied them, which would mean they would have to show real evidence that they created the same work before you. This should hopefully prove difficult if you created it, and kept a credible record of when you created it. I think you should do as many things as you possibly can that provide a whole body of evidence that you created a composition, and when.

Finally, I would not “borrow”up to 4 bars from any other copyright material, unless you know for certain that the author either has a policy of letting other artists of doing so, or you have permission in writing preferably. Particularly if you are going to let anyone else hear your composition. It would most likely be copyright infringement. If you copy and make money out of it in many countries this can be an actual criminal offence as well, not just a civil one, so worth bearing in mind. This may seem unfair, but it is simply often the law around the world. If the original author could recognise that you have copied them then they can probably sue you, and if you are making money then they will probably think they are entitled to a share of your profits. If you want to use copyright material ask for a license to protect yourself. Even modifying other people’s work is usually copyright infringement, it is usually considered a derivative work of the original work.

Hope this makes sense, and is some use, I know there is a great deal of confusion amongst musicians as to what they can do.

Is YouTube a good way to music protect copy rights?