Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence Bmajor Chord on Cminor Key

[someone called simon]

I don't why I'm carrying on here really, but in the demo version, he doesn't play a full B chord. Just B and Eb notes, as far as I can tell from my laptop speakers. No Gb is to be heard, so that removes most of the 'strangeness' from that chord choice. It could be the start of a chromatic bass-note run down, like stairway to heaven and so many other things, in which case a G note could have stayed at the top. Or adding an Ab, it could be heard as an inversion of an Ab minor chord (though rootless), which could then lead into Eb/Bb, and onwards to F7/A etc.

So the melody note stays on its final note of Eb, the bass descends to B, which could then lower to Bb as part of a chromatic progression as mentioned above, but instead acts as a leading tone back into Cm. The addition of the Gb in the final version of the chord, making a full B chord, adds the element of strangeness, which is quite appealing.

Here's another example of a similar but slightly more complex idea, the song ends on Bm, a guitar does a D to D (the minor 3rd) octave slide over this, then the chord falls away to Bb (of which D is the major 3rd), and a different melodic motif comes in that again starts and ends on D, the last time it happens the chord underneath moves back up to Bm, with the final D melody note ringing over it. I find this kind of thing very pleasing

[jancivil]

Theory is to avoid trial and error and explains everything.

You're full of shit.

[ecsmix]

Nope, thanks to theory I can apply the same concept instead of trying millions of possibilities, there are already have 3 different ways of thinking to come up with different chords/ideas, theory narrows it down, helps you.

Better than: We can't know. Ask the person who came up with it. your solution is full of shit.

[Musicologo]

Theory is simply an explanation of WHY something happened.

What your're talking about it's not theory. That's kitchen recipe or algorithm. Follow steps a,b,c in order to obtain result x.

But in order to obtain result x you need to know what you want to obtain, and even if you obtain it you might be getting it through a different process than it was originaly obtained. What matters, the process or the end result? Why do you make music? To enjoy the process of craft [art], of making it, as an extension of your life, to express or induce emotions, or to obtain an artifact [a track] to be sold as a commodity? Depending on the answers you might find algorithms and theories useful or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

You can for sure make transcriptions of pop songs into music notation and then apply neo-riemann theory to try to explain chord functions and whatnot, and even copy the same mechanisms to try to mimic those melodies and chord progressions. But most of those songs were not made [the process by which they were created] in music notation, neither their creators used that theory to create them. So you might end up obtaining similar sounding results but you'll be missing entirely the fundamental steps of their process.

If someone achieved strange chords via smooth voice-leading using a keyboard, or sliding frets in a guitar then I'd would suggest to compose a song in a keyboard letting the fingers take you or in a guitar letting fingers slide instead of using a piano roll and "copying" functions rationally. Understand the process not the result!

[murnau]

Theory is to avoid trial and error and explains everything.

You're full of shit.

Why so aggressive? The statement is on the surface true i'm only surprised that someone like you feel offended of it.

[lalo]

tonal harmony is a vast and tricky field. theory is used to give a "stable" form to artistic practices. at least in western civilization (other cultures have a different balance in the theory/art duality).
BTW that B is the submediant of the minor key (Ebm) of the realtive major (Eb) of Cm key.
It's a common practice in tonal harmony to make frequent interchange between relative keys (i.e. C and Am) and even use the chords.

It's common to see plagal cadences like Fm - C (IVm - I )
where the IVm comes from the Cm key.
Am is part of the tonic region. So Fm - Am.
Ab is the submediant of Cm and has two notes in common with Fm so its part of the subdominant region..
so Ab - Am.
Am - Ab - Am in "C" is like Cm - B (better said Cb) - Cm in the "Eb".

BTW i think that harmony is just sounds combined in vertical shape...so i guess Depeche Mode where guided by their taste...as an artist should do...if the artist knows the theory can certainly do some more adventurous stuff...but art is art and taste is taste

[lalo]

oh..and that minor/minor duality comes from an ancient practice..the picardy cadence....

[AsPeeXXXVIII]

My only guess is that the song was written utilizing a harmonic minor scale rather than a natural harmonic one. And the seventh of the harmonic C minor scale is a major B chord - at least I think it is.

C harmonic minor = C D Eb F G Ab B.
vii = B D F. The vii7 will be B D F Ab.

B diminished, B diminished seventh.

"V of Bb is F and
Tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb, It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ..."

That's quite tortured, frankly. Occam's Razor: the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.

You could for that matter simply notice as I gave you, how the common tone Eb may be harmonized by Cb major, eg., Eb Gb Cb. Yes it is VI of Eb minor, which is six flats; C minor is three flats. So it's distant.
But don't call it #V. Seriously. It introduces complications that are entirely unnecessary and it's ignorant. #V to V _is_ uncommon. bVI to V, fairly normal. However this is not a move to V of Eb, nota bene.
Spelling is actually meaningful.
My advice is to investigate how that is. You may be less likely to make mistakes eg: "Using that scale the B chord would be Bmajb5 (B-D#-F)"
Eb _is_ part of the scale. D# is not. I'll demonstrate why this is erroneous: There is no sharp note in a key of 3 flats (or any normal key with flats in the signature).
The triads are constructed by thirds: B D F. Simple. So the interval you came up with trying to justify this chord is in fact a diminished fourth: B to Eb. As pertains to C minor, or Eb major. Eb minor has a Cb so you can have a Cb Eb Gb triad. Flat five here is Gbb.
(Now jazz people at this point may prefer F for that, confer F A Cb Eb as the V7b5 of Eb, hence its flat five substitute is Cb Eb 'F' 'A'; but "#V to V" is out to lunch. Depeche Mode does not resemble jazz in the least, anyway.)

Leaving this one up as factual, useful information per se.

Okay, I'll admit my mistake. But then again, I never studied music theory very deeply, so my knowledge on the matter is limited. Thanks for educating me.

[dellboy]

Hi guys,

How are you?

I was wondering the theory behind the Bmajor chord where it came from?

Cm /--- 8x ----\
Intro: | Cm | Eb |
| i | III |

/---------- 2x --------\
Verse | Cm | Ebm | Ab | - |
| i | iii | VI | - |

Chorus | Fm | Ab | Cm | Eb/Bb |
| v | VI | i | III |

| Fm | Ab | Cm | B |
| v | VI | i | #VII|

#VII would be the best analysis, which mode, scale it came from?

How a composer would think of using a chord like that after the tonic?

Would considered a modulation?

What would be your interpretation of the Bmajor chord on the chorus over a Eb melody, after Cminor chord(i).

Thanks.

I somehow doubt that Depech Mode knew any musical theory at this early stage,they probably just played around and got something that sounded cool.

And anyway,if it sounds good,why analyse it ?

After all,if Depeche Mode had decided not to record anything until they had a deep grasp of musical theory,then this song would never have been written.

And that would be a shame,because I have just listened to it and have come over all nostalgic.

[cytospur]

Hi guys,

How are you?

I was wondering the theory behind the Bmajor chord where it came from?

Cm /--- 8x ----\
Intro: | Cm | Eb |
| i | III |

/---------- 2x --------\
Verse | Cm | Ebm | Ab | - |
| i | iii | VI | - |

Chorus | Fm | Ab | Cm | Eb/Bb |
| v | VI | i | III |

| Fm | Ab | Cm | B |
| v | VI | i | #VII|

#VII would be the best analysis, which mode, scale it came from?

How a composer would think of using a chord like that after the tonic?

Would considered a modulation?

What would be your interpretation of the Bmajor chord on the chorus over a Eb melody, after Cminor chord(i).

Thanks.

I somehow doubt that Depech Mode knew any musical theory at this early stage,they probably just played around and got something that sounded cool.

And anyway,if it sounds good,why analyse it ?

After all,if Depeche Mode had decided not to record anything until they had a deep grasp of musical theory,then this song would never have been written.

And that would be a shame,because I have just listened to it and have come over all nostalgic.

Alan Wilder is/was classically trained and he was involved with fleshing out Martin's demos in to the final songs. It would be interesting to know his thoughts