KVR Audio

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:32 pm

sircuit wrote:reFX's ends on Monday. It's safe to assume that Vengeance's not going to be around longer. Next discount period for Vengeance would be Easter if they follow last year's pattern.

msvs · Post by **msvs** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:58 am

it will end during this week, I guess

Razzia · Post by **Razzia** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:48 pm

Warning: gushy "brown nose" post incoming

Yesterday someone asked me to describe Avenger - to sell them on it basically. I started with talking about the various functions of the oscillator modules. By the time I finished writing a massive paragraph I realized I'd spent all that time describing just what the oscillators can do.

I continued on about how flexible the routing is for oscillators and FX busses on top of return busses on top of a master FX bus.

et cetera, et ceterea

By the time I got done it really dawned on me how dependent on Avenger I've become, why my projects have been 80% comprised of Avenger for the past year. It just lets me do... whatever I want. I just feel so handicapped working in other synths most of the time.

So... you know... thanks, VPS.

But please, please, PRETTY PLEASE can we have a mix knob on the filters?

msvs · Post by **msvs** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:18 am

thank you!

btw we are currently working on something easier to manage your account / XPs. Standalone Control Center

VMan.png

Sam-U · Post by **Sam-U** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:23 pm

msvs wrote:thank you!

btw we are currently working on something easier to manage your account / XPs. Standalone Control Center

Oh no please not another manager...

Warehouseparty · Post by **Warehouseparty** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm

As long as it's inside Avenger I like this idea. But I'm afraid it's not, because in that case it wouldn't be "stand alone"...

MikeCallon · Post by **MikeCallon** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:27 pm

Please don't make it compulsory - the current system works just fine for me.

DPhil · Post by **DPhil** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:10 pm

It rather looks like preparing a subscription model or a shop. I don't like this anyway since every dev has its own manager software and there are just too many of them. No need in yet another one. I'm also afraid you have to work in an environment with online connection then.

sircuit · Post by **sircuit** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:40 pm

DPhil wrote:I'm also afraid you have to work in an environment with online connection then.

That's already the case with the ongoing system, if you install a new computer and don't have internet connection you can't use Avenger. Back when it was launched, you could keep everything (software, key, factory lib, expansions) on your own drive and just recover from backups in case of issues. IMHO Vengeance played a little bit dirty - there are people that avoid this type of online schemes like plague and purchased Avenger because the initial version didn't have it and surprise, no it has it

Someone reported a system ID change just by updating OS (so one strike on the licenses count).
This is why some people (me included) like iLok/eLicenser dongles (and one of the reasons I purchased Falcon this winter - I need to know that I have a reliable synth in any circumstances)

On the other hand, I can't stop wondering why instead of coding a separate cross-platform app, one doesn't code a proper user area on vps-avenger.com (with all registered machines, total number of licenses, remaining licenses, activate/deactivate machines etc. - iLok style) - since the manager app is useless offline anyway.

Sam-U · Post by **Sam-U** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:28 pm

sircuit wrote:That's already the case with the ongoing system, if you install a new computer and don't have internet connection you can't use Avenger. Back when it was launched, you could keep everything (software, key, factory lib, expansions) on your own drive and just recover from backups in case of issues. IMHO Vengeance played a little bit dirty - there are people that avoid this type of online schemes like plague and purchased Avenger because the initial version didn't have it and surprise, no it has it

Someone reported a system ID change just by updating OS (so one strike on the licenses count).
This is why some people (me included) like iLok/eLicenser dongles (and one of the reasons I purchased Falcon this winter - I need to know that I have a reliable synth in any circumstances)

On the other hand, I can't stop wondering why instead of coding a separate cross-platform app, one doesn't code a proper user area on vps-avenger.com (with all registered machines, total number of licenses, remaining licenses, activate/deactivate machines etc. - iLok style) - since the manager app is useless offline anyway.

They did a few things I cannot understand

Like the very buggy releases, the new licensing, the Avengers website user area or just promising features to other products which unfortunately never were implemented. It also seems they give support within their own forum which was made for Germans and you'll need to register to even read about fixes, tips or workarounds.
It's sad to see they're going the refx way by abandonding everything besides Avenger (which still doesn't run smooth) and focus on selling expansions.

At least you can resell their plugins.

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:51 pm

Another software would such. Already too many....

Warehouseparty · Post by **Warehouseparty** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:34 pm

Sam-U wrote:It also seems they give support within their own forum which was made for Germans and you'll need to register to even read about fixes, tips or workarounds.

There is an english part, which is served as good as the german part. And to be honest: this thread contains a lot more tips/tricks/support as the whole vengeance forum. And since Manuel is really active here as well, I can't see why you are complaining. There are a lot of companies with a lot less responsive support/behaviour at higher prices. This could be improved in terms of structure for sure - but that's it.

Sam-U wrote:abandonding everything besides Avenger (which still doesn't run smooth)

May be they focus on Avenger to make it run smooth? Which is for Win/FL users the case for a long time now btw.

And saying they focus on selling expansions alone is the last point, which is complete out of the blue - I recently got a free FM update, some months ago there was a granular update...

If you don't like Avenger - fair, you don't need to! But your talking bs here - not fair!

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:37 pm

msvs wrote:thank you!

btw we are currently working on something easier to manage your account / XPs. Standalone Control Center

VMan.png

Looks good, I have no problem with this (in fact I like update managers, use Arturia and NI without an issue) just run it when you need it to download content/get updates- what's the problem with that?

msvs · Post by **msvs** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:56 pm

this V-Manager will be INSIDE Avenger. An optional standalone will maybe come later.
Its necessary, because at the moment the licensing system is too complicated for some people.
The new one is easier, because it automatically transmits the system-id so you do not have to copy paste it manually. Furthermore a click on downloading an expansion will automatically download/install it on the correct Avenger folder/location.

So we will have less support emails and more time for cool new features

Sam-U · Post by **Sam-U** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Warehouseparty wrote:
Sam-U wrote:abandonding everything besides Avenger (which still doesn't run smooth)
May be they focus on Avenger to make it run smooth?

By developing fancy games, some kind of license & expansion manager and new features which introduced many new bugs and made one of the last updates unusable?

Why didn't they try to fix the blackscreen when opening Avenger instead? Or fixed the problem with a too big Avenger editor which can't be resized since the zoom icon can't be reached? Or the problem with touching midi notes where we get told to just shorten the notes instead? Or the bug where some have to activate their Avenger instances everytime they open it? Don't you think there is some legitimate critics of their mentality?

I was a long time customer since they've released their sidechain plugin (which now is v3 and still has e.g. timing problems and I asked the support many times to fix it). I already experienced their tries to sell expansions for Metrum and Phalanx which got hyped eagerly and are now dead. I meanwhile sold all my products because they didn't see any (bug fix or feature) update for years and their competitors didn't sleep. Avenger is just the cash cow for now and that's why they're focused on. Nice, but is that fair to existing customers which bought their other products?

And yes these are my personal experiences and opinions. Maybe I only had bad luck

Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread