StiX : MultiSynthesis Drum Machine (v1.6 Released + Flash sales)

[braj]

Is clip-based sequencing now so prevalent people are incapable of shifting MIDI notes back a few ticks into the previous bar?

Well, in Reaper I am working with regions, not clip based, but it messes that up even if I move the start back a few ticks. Anyhow, there are other drum machines out there, I'll skip on Stix, it obviously isn't for me.

[Lotuzia]

StiX patterns can be triggered, and chained, live from your Midi keyboard. the new pattern will begin on the first beat of the next bar. This is not a bug,(so it doesnt have to be 'fixed', strictly speaking) it's per design : StiX has sample accurate timing, and though such a feature often got under the radar, -we think- it's a major ande mandatory one for a rythm unit, and it required a huge work to achieve. A lot of drum machines work in a similar way.

Really? I'll tell you right now that behavior frankly sucks, whether in your plugin or any other. If I make an arrangement and then want to move bars around, I have no way to get the StiX patterns triggered in any sane way, I would have to redo the drum track. This is in Reaper, where Geist Lite doesn't have that problem, it is also triggered via the piano roll it certainly is no necessity. I haven't tried StiX CM yet in Live, but I imagine it would have problems there as well from what you're saying, and without midi drag and drop, how does anyone use it?

Unless this is FIXED (yes, it is broken since other drum machines don't have this limitation) I guess the song mode in the full version gets around this somehow?

Here again, I think there's a confusion between exporting midi patterns, to customise them after, and building tracks using patterns in StiX. These are different things, and they serve different purposes and workflow, as I see it.

I think the best is that I give an example showing how you can build 'songs' in StiX by using the trigger pattern command in your daw.

The principle is very easy : The notes of the Octave c3 will select the patterns on the next bar.

So if I want a track like this, starting from bar 5 in the daw : Pattern A*7, Pattern B*1 (break/fill), Pattern A*7, Pattern C*1 (different Break from B), Pattern D*8 (Bridge) I will make the following :

Bar 4 : I record a C3 note in the daw : Pattern A will be selected and begin to play from Bar 5 until I record another note in the octave C3.
Bar 11 : I record a note C#3 in the Daw. Pattern B will be selected, and will play from bar 13 until another note played live or recorded in the daw selects another pattern. As we want it to play only once, we will write/record/play another note during bar 12.
Bar 12 : We record C3 again, as we want pattern A again, wich will begin to play on bar 13
We repeat the above, while changing Pattern B (C#3) for Pattern C (D3) for the second break.
Then record an E3 in the bar before the bridge begins. etc. So this can be done in a second.

Now let's say I want to exchange the two breaks pattern B & C : Open daw editor, change C#3 for D2 at bar 11, and note D3 for C#3 for the second break. No need to record the whole song again.


Let's say I want to change the bridge rythm from pattern D to Pattern G : Simply open your daw and change note E3 ( Wich always select Pattern D) to note F3 (Wich will select pattern E), and that's done.

So you can see it's very easy not only to build tracks, but to change the patterns selected. WHile not having to re-record all the track. It's also equally easy to change the locations where pattern changes will occur : Just move the note in your daw to the previous bar if you want the break pattern to play twice instead of once for example.

You can therefore : Record a whole track structure in one take, by recording live the patterns changes in your daw. Then edit the pattern order, edit the bars at wich patterns changes will occur by simply moving or changing a note in your daw. And even build different versions of your drums track by creating several midi tracks that will contain a different version.

Once this is made you can alter patterns by
a/ Muting some specific drumsounds freely (using octave c2)
b/ Playing/recording directly drum hits using Octave C1. (and editing them afterwards in case you're not totally happy with the take)

Combining these three simple techniques you're able to write any drum part, from the most simple to the more complex one.

I'll post an example with a screenshot and the audio asap.

Hope it will clear a bit things. All this is not related to StiX midi out techniques, wich has a different workflow from dnd, and I'm still waiting for any input from users, to possibly mitigate our pov on this.

[braj]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

[masterhiggins]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

Yeah, too bad it doesn't have a straightforward and fast sequencer like Tremor where you switch patterns freakishly fast. I think the sound engine is probably better-sounding and more straightforward in Styx, but seriously...f that sequencer.

[plexuss]

I dunno. I use rhythm plugins a lot. It's not uncommong for me to have multiple rhythm plugins going at the same time. I find StiX's workflow to be just fine. Lets put it this way: I just tried the Evolution demo and I don't get it. I don't see how to store multiple patterns and select them with midi notes. Apparently it can, but it's not inituitive. When I tried StiX the first time, I figured it out without consulting a manual etc. So from a pattern creation/selection perspective I find StiX to be intuitive and uses a similar workflow to other out there. In fact, this is my preferred workflow. Microtonic, BFD, Tremor,Tattoo, etc are similar.

In terms of starting the pattern right on a key-press-start Papen Punch does it this way. BFD has an option to start on bar or start on select.

I suppose it would be nice to have a start-on-bar, start-on-select option - then you could do either. For some this might be a deal-breaker. Easy enough to implement.

[braj]

Having the option to start on the next bar or start immediately would resolve the issue I have. But Lotuzia's deafness as to why this is an issue for me is bewildering. Having it only start on the next bar makes it unworkable if I am triggering patterns via midi in the piano roll.

[plexuss]

Having the option to start on the next bar or start immediately would resolve the issue I have. But Lotuzia's deafness as to why this is an issue for me is bewildering. Having it only start on the next bar makes it unworkable if I am triggering patterns via midi in the piano roll.

Well, it would make sense to implement. Its just a button with 2 states: "start on bar" on/off.

The problem with user experience design (aka usability) is that many unqualified people think they are qualified because anyone can create and move UI elements around. But this does not make them a good UX practitioner. Unfortunately a lot of coders that can do UI design fancy themselves UX experts when they are not. Alas.

[braj]

Yeah, understanding that usability defects are in fact defects would be helpful. If a user scenario gives a bad result, it is a bug. Trying to explain away these issues results in the user throwing up their hands and using something else.

[plexuss]

Yeah, understanding that usability defects are in fact defects would be helpful. If a user scenario gives a bad result, it is a bug. Trying to explain away these issues results in the user throwing up their hands and using something else.

The problem is there is a lot of ego build into UX and those that don't know what they are doing with UX will often fight to maintain, for themselves, that they are in fact good at UX. The proof is in the pudding.

[braj]

Yeah, understanding that usability defects are in fact defects would be helpful. If a user scenario gives a bad result, it is a bug. Trying to explain away these issues results in the user throwing up their hands and using something else.

The problem is there is a lot of ego build into UX and those that don't know what they are doing with UX will often fight to maintain, for themselves, that they are in fact good at UX. The proof is in the pudding.

Exactly.

[Lotuzia]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

That's just because you mix several subjects in one. Drag'n'drop (ie exporting patterns as midi notes to daw) is completely different than changing patterns on the fly by pressing a midi key on your keyboard. You can record a complete song with StiX using pattern triggered by midi notes. You can even do it LIVE !!! in a gig. Do that with drag'ndrop ...

When it comes to Midi export to daw, Drag'n'drop is not the only solution, StiX also does that, by recording the midi output between two locators in your daw. Select locators in the daw, press record on your daw while enabling midi flow in StiX : done. And you can print to daw the midi of a whole 10mn long song doing that in a single operation in StiX. Faster than drag'n'drop dozens of patterns, then rearanging them with multiple copy/paste in your daw. But certainly a different workflow.

This said, Drag'n'drop IS a popular demand, and is currently examined. Hence why I'm asking people not only what they wish globally, but also why they want this or that feature.

[braj]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

That's just because you mix several subjects in one. Drag'n'drop (ie exporting patterns as midi notes to daw) is completely different than changing patterns on the fly by pressing a midi key on your keyboard. You can record a complete song with StiX using pattern triggered by midi notes. You can even do it LIVE !!! in a gig. Do that with drag'ndrop ...

When it comes to Midi export to daw, Drag'n'drop is not the only solution, StiX also does that, by recording the midi output between two locators in your daw. Select locators in the daw, press record on your daw while enabling midi flow in StiX : done. And you can print to daw the midi of a whole 10mn long song doing that in a single operation in StiX. Faster than drag'n'drop dozens of patterns, then rearanging them with multiple copy/paste in your daw. But certainly a different workflow.

This said, Drag'n'drop IS a popular demand, and is currently examined. Hence why I'm asking people not only what they wish globally, but also why they want this or that feature.

Sorry, you haven't really been listening. Drag and drop would at least work around the defect, but the defect is you don't allow triggering on the beat. Try your system In Live. BTW, drag and drop isn't preferable to me necessarily, as I like having the pattern abstracted out to the plugin's sequences so it can be edited there without hard writing it into the DAW. I said too bad you didn't implement drag and drop because there would be an easy and effective way around the usability issue

[plexuss]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

This said, Drag'n'drop IS a popular demand, and is currently examined. Hence why I'm asking people not only what they wish globally, but also why they want this or that feature.

I would recommend hiring a company to do a usability test on StiX and then follow their recommendations. Make sure they do a quantitative task based test (not a subjective test). There are many companies around the world that will do this. It can be done remotely as well to target users worldwide. It might cost $10k-15k USD. This is cost of doing good UX. Or, hire a UX practitioner that works with plugins to help. But nothing beats a formal science based usability test.

[Lotuzia]

Sorry, there are way less cumbersome workflows than that and plenty of plugins that use them. I'll pass on this poorly implemented design. I like the plugin otherwise, but this is a deal breaker. Too bad you didn't just implement drag and drop

Yeah, too bad it doesn't have a straightforward and fast sequencer like Tremor where you switch patterns freakishly fast. I think the sound engine is probably better-sounding and more straightforward in Styx, but seriously...f that sequencer.

Switching patterns faster than pressing a key ?

Or

When you select a new pattern, it plays the new selected pattern at once ? or on the next beat (instead of next bar in StiX)

And btw do these sequencers engines have per step divisi or different number of steps per beat possible for each beat of each line ? And micro position and gate time for each step of each beat of each line ? Because this make some differences also regarding patterns changes.

I think that changing patterns on the next beat, while beeing a hard task, might be doable. If it"s a very popular demand, we'll see what we can do. But change pattern taking effects instantaneously might be a nightmare, due to some of the sophisticated functions described above the sequencer engine

[Lotuzia]

Yeah, understanding that usability defects are in fact defects would be helpful. If a user scenario gives a bad result, it is a bug. Trying to explain away these issues results in the user throwing up their hands and using something else.

Hmmm I dont understand why you can't just record Midi data within one bar if you want to export a single bar.( wich is strictly 100% equivalent to drag'n'drop a pattern) Yes it requires to set loop points and press record in your daw, but still .....

Or use the Song Mode to build a song. It's easy, instantaneous etc.

One of my best friends uses Live and StiX, and he build very complex everchanging rythms with it. It seems he has none of your problems, then he maybe uses Live in a different way than you

Anyway, I'll simply add your voice in favor of drag'n'drop, and that's it. Like I said, if there are a lot of equivalent demands, we might try to implement it.