Bitwig 2.3 announcement

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SLiC
KVRAF
2809 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:14 am

thetechnobear wrote:
cant you do something similar to the unison and selector in Live by placing instances in an instrument rack... (multiple instances, chain selectors etc)
I don't think its similar at all (and I have Live 9.5 suite and Bitwig)

Only one layer can be played at a time, and the other layers are inactive to both your ears and your processor’s load.

Modulation and automated switching between layers.

Switch between layers without hard breaks or clicks, and your sustained notes and reverb tails will fade away naturally.

The Voice Stack modulator can be used in conjunction with voice stacking for detailed mapping control of each voice in the stack.

Voice stack count, how many voices each note should play, and assign parameters to spread for each voice. The Voice Stack modulator can be used in conjunction with voice stacking for detailed mapping control of each voice in the stack.

Sounds to me like this is a unique new level of combining VSTs and FX to make unique instruments, the thing it is prpobaly most similar to is S13 Multi-Instruments.

The real key I think WRT live is if (with the new streach algorythmes) BWS 'sounds' better (or even as good) as Live, if it does I no longer see any advantage at all with Live 10.
Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13993 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:00 am

thetechnobear wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Unison (Voice Stacking) at the DAW level seems pretty new... how many DAW's have that? Or a modulator that allows you to set a parameter per unison voice. Also, the Instrument and Effect Selector Devices seem quite good.

Perhaps those features don't interest you, but they are for sure more than just 'catching up' to other DAW's
cant you do something similar to the unison and selector in Live by placing instances in an instrument rack... (multiple instances, chain selectors etc) - thats not saying its not useful, for BWS, just not unique.
Similar yes... same as in any DAW you can add multiple instances of a synth on multiple tracks and you got unison... now try editing the preset for all of the instances or spreading cutoff values or detune across instances! Clumsy as hell.

And of course in Bitwig it will be easy to modulate the cutoff spread, detune or any other parameters across unison voices with other modulators...

If you want to call that the same... well, have at it. I'm looking forward to using it :tu:

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13993 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:26 am

thetechnobear wrote:I think the 'disappointment' for me, as @machineslearning mentioned, is an open modular system was promised on release, but its constantly been pushed back... each year we hear less about it, to the point where I'm starting to doubt it will ever be released... (perhaps due to good technical reasons)
It has not constantly been pushed back. It was announced for V2 before Bitwig even shipped V1. They changed their mind for V2. So it has been pushed back once.

That initial announcement is the only time it has been talked about so your characterization of hearing about it less each year is just you making a narrative to reinforce your speculation (based on nothing) that it may never be released.

Every single Bitwig device is already built with the underlying modular system. It is there and functioning already so there is no basis for your insinuation that it may never work due to technical reasons. They will give users access to it when they feel it is ready and they are ready to do it.

Groundhog #31684
KVRist
122 posts since 23 Jun, 2015

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:59 am

Does anybody know what's happening with the remote real-time collaboration feature?

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5022 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:20 am

@technobear: One could say the same about Live 10. It doesn't contain anything I personally am interested in and felt more like catching up (in many areas actually catching up with Bitwig) to me from what I read. To me, it feels rather expensive for what it offers.

And of course Bitwig has some "catching up" to do itself with DAWs that are there for ages, just in different areas. So there has to be a balance between the "catching-up" part and the "new exciting stuff" part.
2.3 is just a dot-update, so I find it actually quite massive if I compare it to Live 9 to 10, taking 5 years in which BWS went from 1.0 to now 2.3 with much more innovation going on.

But whatever works for you. I personally would be furious about paying the update to Live 10 with so many things I already hated in Live 8 (which I sold) not even close to being solved or being brought forward at all.

In the end it's all about what helps you make music and be creative, everything else is just window dressing.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi

ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

jsp1979
KVRAF
2896 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:47 am

Woodgardens wrote:@jsp1979

I'm pretty much excited about it! Otherwise I would not post off topic :oops:
:tu:

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antic604
KVRian
1332 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:10 am

thetechnobear wrote:BWS will be the same... 2.3 is not super exciting to me, so I can just leave it, and perhaps I'll even just forget about it for a while , until they announce improved touch screen or MPE support, which i do care about.
Which DAW has a better touch implementation than Bitwig? Also, it has full MPE support.

*Your* Live 10 has none of the above.

I don't get your rant.
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604
KVRian
1332 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:42 am

thetechnobear wrote:cant you do something similar to the unison and selector in Live by placing instances in an instrument rack... (multiple instances, chain selectors etc) - thats not saying its not useful, for BWS, just not unique.
No, Racks (which have Layers as an equivalent in Bitwig) keep all the instruments or effects running at all time, whereas this new device in Bitwig switches between them, disabling the ones not in use, ie. freeing up the CPU resources - that's awesome for live perfomance
thetechnobear wrote:I think the 'disappointment' for me, as @machineslearning mentioned, is an open modular system was promised on release, but its constantly been pushed back... each year we hear less about it, to the point where I'm starting to doubt it will ever be released... (perhaps due to good technical reasons)
Show me one complex device you've built with Bitwig's modulators like Polarity or Kim Ake do and I'll believe you *need* M4L / full-modular environment in Bitwig. Because right now it seems like an excuse to bitch & moan about Bitwig... Actually, modulators is a genoius idea, because it's a great trade-off between flexibility of full-modular and difficulty of actually patching & programming it (like M4L).
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

SLiC
KVRAF
2809 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:20 pm

I could not agree with this more.

I have Max in Live Suite and Reactor and whilst I enjoy others efforts I have never had the time to realy dig and and make what I need for a musical idea.

With BWS modulators I have been able to quickly create useful tools I actually wanted (particular for CV output)

The only advantage of opening it up is I guess more people making modules, but to be honest, more than happy with the speed they are dropping currently, at least I have time to learn them!
Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13993 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:07 pm

SLiC wrote:I could not agree with this more.

I have Max in Live Suite and Reactor and whilst I enjoy others efforts I have never had the time to realy dig and and make what I need for a musical idea.

With BWS modulators I have been able to quickly create useful tools I actually wanted (particular for CV output)

The only advantage of opening it up is I guess more people making modules, but to be honest, more than happy with the speed they are dropping currently, at least I have time to learn them!
Bitwig made a significant change to the underlying architecture for 2.0... changing from modulator devices to the new modulators concept. They need to make sure the core implementations are where they want them before opening up the modular back-end to users. That's why I am in no hurry for it. Better to really get it right first.

Also, it was something of a can of worms (that's really insulting to worms who are really positive creatures) with Max 4 Live. It's been over a year since I visited the M4L user library... but it was always very hit and miss. I found it an unhappy experience. Lots of devices out of date, buggy, incomplete and abandoned. I spent way too much time downloading and installing devices just to find out they sucked in one way or another. Also, M4L itself was crash-prone. I finally stopped using it because I valued stability over whatever features it offered.

So yes, I look forward to when the modular environment is available to users and I also prefer Bitwig take their time and make sure they are truly happy with it before giving users access. Once users have made lots of devices, it is harder to make core changes. I also hope they would set a higher standard for a potential user library than Ableton did. I would like a place to go where the devices are dependable and not lots of crap there.

If it were available, I would add a filter to FM-4 and make an improved Arpeggiator device.

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Tj Shredder
KVRian
1372 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:59 pm

antic604 wrote:Also, it has full MPE support.
Unfortunately that is not the reality. I don't know what they broke and why, but they managed, that certain MPE plugs work but you don't get recorded what you played, the Midi channel is not recorded, it kills overlapping notes on the same key. They kind of reconstruct the channel information and send that to the plug...
Full MPE support would be dead easy, even Ardour is capable to support it, without being conscious about it.
I simply cannot get into the next round until this core functionality is fixed, I fear it will be 3.0... I do prefer their licensing model over any other, because they pull out immediately what they cook to convince customers to follow, and on the other hand I will hold back until my main demands are implemented/fixed. I hope this holding back will put the pressure on them to fix it.

jonljacobi
KVRian
696 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:37 am

Bitwig has some great features, some of which are currently unique or best of class. It still has a lot of ground to make up. I think we'd have 3.0 already if they had not tried to write their own audio stretching.

But I also think their foundation is well thought out and they can get there quicker for this point on than the other DAWs did. But no one can ever be certain what devs are thinking, and I've never seen a road map.

As to yearly upgrade fee, I don't think its implementation has squat to do with the pace at which they can or will deliver things, though it eventually might as the company "matures". I think it just allows them to remain in business.

And about announcements of things that weren't delivered. I don't think for a second they were intentionally dishonest, just overly optimistic about how fast they could deliver things. Unwarranted optimism is a universal issue in the software industry. It just looks easier than it is.

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poshook
KVRian
682 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:52 am

elastique pro..... wow, finally. A game changer for me

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13993 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:16 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
antic604 wrote:Also, it has full MPE support.
Unfortunately that is not the reality. I don't know what they broke and why, but they managed, that certain MPE plugs work but you don't get recorded what you played, the Midi channel is not recorded, it kills overlapping notes on the same key. They kind of reconstruct the channel information and send that to the plug...
Full MPE support would be dead easy, even Ardour is capable to support it, without being conscious about it.
I simply cannot get into the next round until this core functionality is fixed, I fear it will be 3.0... I do prefer their licensing model over any other, because they pull out immediately what they cook to convince customers to follow, and on the other hand I will hold back until my main demands are implemented/fixed. I hope this holding back will put the pressure on them to fix it.
I agree... I believe a DAW should record whatever midi data the midi controller generates.

One thing... I would use the word improved not fixed. It's not currently broken and is functioning as designed. The design needs to be improved upon.

I doubt holding back will assist with the desired result. Sending emails to Bitwig support is more likely to... so if you haven't yet :tu:

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13993 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig 2.3 announcement

Post Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:55 pm

Bitwig 2.3 beta is available!!

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