Fuse Audio Labs releases the VCL-4 Vintage Opto Leveler

[fuseaudiolabs]

I'd be very interested in answer to my question from yesterday:

I don't recall running into aliasing in my BRA plugs. Would you say VCL-4 exhibits more aliasing than the BRA products you've worked on?? I hope you'll be able to implement oversampling at some point. I work at 44.1 and 96k is not feasible for me right now.

I think I answered that on p2: viewtopic.php?p=6991747#p6991747

Actually you didn't. You focused on my mentioning the oversampling instead of answering the preceding question about aliasing in comparison to BRA plugs. It's OK though, you're free ignore potential customers inquiries or suggestions. It is a bit telling about you and your company, however.

Well, I think I did, but let me phrase it even more obviously: There currently are no plans to add oversampling and it wouldn't have been skipped if sonic performance had seriously been impacted by this step, i.e. according to measurement and criterial listening. Aliasing is not really an issue in the VCL-4 unless you drive the audiopath - not the sidechain - into clipping all the way, which isn't the primary application for this unit which is compression. Keep in mind that most BRA plugs emulate discrete solid state or tube based circuits which would generate ridiculous amounts of aliasing or create stability issues (e.g. the negative feedback network in the VLA-2A's audio amplifier) when emulated without oversampling.

I hope this clearifyes your question better then my previous answer

Best,
Ray

[v1o]

I tried to like it but this is just not for me. It’s a bit too aggressive and too sensitive. But I like your Black Rooster stuff.

[fuseaudiolabs]

I tried to like it but this is just not for me. It’s a bit too aggressive and too sensitive. But I like your Black Rooster stuff.

Fair enough. This one's a different flavor for sure.

[jbarish]

Thank you for clarifying.

[HcDoom]

This one aliases even on higher sample rates (96khz +), so, yes, it needs oversampling badly. Wouldnt mind 2-3% more cpu usage because of it. Its not 2009 to think of cpu usage that much.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Its not 2009 to think of cpu usage that much.

It is if you built/bought your machine in 2009

[RPH]

Hi,

I bought this compressor based on the comments, vids and good intro price.
Cheers on the release! Think it's really nice at normal settings.

Got a bit intrigued by the reported aliasing, so thought i'd see for myself what's going on.
In another thread here about compressors saw a link to someone testing several compressors.
I used the method described there and recorded three videos, one at 44.1kHz and the others at 96kHz and 192kHz.
Am not sure the setting for the VLC-4 is correct, i just maxed everything to get the clearest picture of what it does to a sine signal.


@44.1kHz:

@96kHz:

@192kHz:

[Lesha]

I bought this compressor based on the comments, vids and good intro price.
Cheers on the release! Think it's really nice at normal settings.

Got a bit intrigued by the reported aliasing, so thought i'd see for myself what's going on.
In another thread here about compressors saw a link to someone testing several compressors.
I used the method described there and recorded two videos, one at 44.1kHz and the other at 192kHz.
Am not sure the setting for the VLC-4 is correct, i just maxed everything to get the clearest picture of what it does to a sine signal.

Well, everyone can test with a sine signal, but does that really matter in a real world situation? I have heard much worse than this when sine testing, but I can not hear aliasing when I use this compressor on any material, be it drums, vocals, bass guitars, you name it. Unless you are making music using sine signals?
Ray already explained that VCL-4 can do just fine without oversampling, and I am completely fine with an added benefit of zero latency delay and low CPU consumption.

There currently are no plans to add oversampling and it wouldn't have been skipped if sonic performance had seriously been impacted by this step, i.e. according to measurement and criterial listening. Aliasing is not really an issue in the VCL-4 unless you drive the audiopath - not the sidechain - into clipping all the way, which isn't the primary application for this unit which is compression. Keep in mind that most BRA plugs emulate discrete solid state or tube based circuits which would generate ridiculous amounts of aliasing or create stability issues (e.g. the negative feedback network in the VLA-2A's audio amplifier) when emulated without oversampling.

[Tp3]

Unless you are making music using sine signals?

Price (RIP) did !

He explored the relationship between sine waves and time signatures and concluded in his seminal song :
"Sine of the times" !

[RPH]

Well, everyone can test with a sine signal, but does that really matter in a real world situation? I have heard much worse than this when sine testing, but I can not hear aliasing when I use this compressor on any material, be it drums, vocals, bass guitars, you name it. Unless you are making music using sine signals?
Ray already explained that VCL-4 can do just fine without oversampling, and I am completely fine with an added benefit of zero latency delay and low CPU consumption.

Indeed, anyone can. Probebly doesn't matter based on the comment by the dev, am not arguing that.
That was not why I made the videos, more to have something to look at after the aliasing comments been made.
Sine was only used to see the response without added harmonics.

[fuseaudiolabs]

Hi,

I bought this compressor based on the comments, vids and good intro price.
Cheers on the release! Think it's really nice at normal settings.

Got a bit intrigued by the reported aliasing, so thought i'd see for myself what's going on.
In another thread here about compressors saw a link to someone testing several compressors.
I used the method described there and recorded two videos, one at 44.1kHz and the other at 192kHz.
Am not sure the setting for the VLC-4 is correct, i just maxed everything to get the clearest picture of what it does to a sine signal.


@44.1kHz:

@96 kHz:

@192kHz:

Hi RPH,

Thanks for sharing your vids/measurements. I perform this type of sine sweep measurement during the prototyping stage indeed. Sometimes I also substract the original sweep from the output signal in a level matched setup so harmonics+aliased harmonics aren't masked by the fundamental but that only works well if the processor doesn't have a significant phase response. This gives me a rough guess of where I'm at in terms of aliasing unless oversampling is enforced by other constraints such as frequency warping or instability. But yes, I kind of agree, it's also important to evaluate the impact of aliasing in practical situations. That's what the critical listening part was referring to in my previous post.
RPH, you'd observe heavier figures with the VCL-4 if you left the compressor at a neutral state and cranked the makeup amplifier all the way, basically hard clipping the audio. Mind you, the original unit wouldn't sound good in this out of spec. region, either, minus the aliasing of course..it's simply not what it's supposed to do - it's a compressor after all, not a saturator.
Conclusion: Watch the UI's overload LED and you'll be fine .

To put this never ending discussion into the dev's perspective a little more:
Add oversampling and there will be people complaining about high CPU load, (inaudible) ripple artifacts, an (inaudible) cut near Nyquist, (something like 16..32 samples) latency or - God forbid - non-linear phase...have you thought about what your converters do btw.?
Skip oversampling in legitimate situations and there will be people complaining about aliasing (even in cases where aliasing isn't generated by construction, hehe).
Add switchable oversampling and there will be people complaining about usability, and yes, I have seen that happen.
Skip non-linearities where applicable and people are going to complain about superficial modeling.
So, which road to take? You'll do it by your own, technically driven, objective and hopefully high standards, trying to provide the best quality you can and leave it up to the customer to decide whether or not he or she likes it (what else can you do after all).

Hope this helps to shine a little bit of light on the topic. I'm not trying to convince anyone of the opposite of what they are thinking and I don't feel offended by other people's opinions, even if sometimes people are trying to be insulting just for the sake of it (this clearly isn't directed at you, RPH or anyone here in particular) but I guess that's life

Have a nice Saturday everyone.

Best,
Ray

[HcDoom]

Add oversampling and let people choose do they want to use oversampling or not.

[fuseaudiolabs]

The intro offer ($39) ends tomorrow on Feb 1st

[Halonmusic]

The intro offer ($39) ends tomorrow on Feb 1st

Then i need to buy this asap.

[fuseaudiolabs]

Here's another nice review by RealHomeRecording.com