Being soundcloud famous doesn't mean s*** these days.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Or look at someone like Deadmau5. He admits that he can't be bothered to learn how to play instruments. He clicks all his stuff into the piano roll, and it's almost cringe-inducing to watch a video of him work (nothing against sequencing, but it's just weird to see someone that famous with such little actual knowledge of music).

I've watched him, too. I was embarrassed for him.

I thought it was just me that was unimpressed that it takes him an hour to create a chord sequence

[Jace-BeOS]

Or look at someone like Deadmau5. He admits that he can't be bothered to learn how to play instruments. He clicks all his stuff into the piano roll, and it's almost cringe-inducing to watch a video of him work (nothing against sequencing, but it's just weird to see someone that famous with such little actual knowledge of music).

I've watched him, too. I was embarrassed for him.

I thought it was just me that was unimpressed that it takes him an hour to create a chord sequence

What happens when his fans see videos like that? Do they feel embarrassed or do they feel vindicated that their music guy is "down to earth" and "normal" like them?

I can't play instruments either. I tried taking lessons when i was young, but no teacher ever felt like teaching me the instrument alone; they always wanted me to learn notation. Notation just doesn't work for me. I get the concepts, but i can't process them in my head. Rote memorization doesn't work for me and neither do mnemonics. It's dyslexia/dyscalculia or whatever, and was an unknown and unaccommodated issue when i was school age. At 42, my limits in these areas are not likely to change.

Yet i make music. Is my music invalid?

I'm not saying i like Deadmou5 (which i cannot read other than "Dead Mow Five"). I'm asking what you think his music work habits mean to the people that like his output. Clearly you're not one of those people. Are there no musicians that you like who are not classically trained? Does it matter when you like their output?

[AnX]

It's Deadmau5...

[Winstontaneous]

Or look at someone like Deadmau5. He admits that he can't be bothered to learn how to play instruments. He clicks all his stuff into the piano roll, and it's almost cringe-inducing to watch a video of him work (nothing against sequencing, but it's just weird to see someone that famous with such little actual knowledge of music).

I've watched him, too. I was embarrassed for him.

Who cares? I have many years playing "real" instruments and respect deadmau5' skillz even if he gets his results using different means. The song below is one of the more interesting things I've heard in recent months - sly, funky, surprising - and I don't think someone who knows theory or how to play an instrument would have come up with that chord progression or melody, but it works.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Sounds like hes been listening to DaftPunk

[VariKusBrainZ]

Sounds like hes been listening to DaftPunk

....and Justice

[donkey tugger]

Notation just doesn't work for me. I get the concepts, but i can't process them in my head. Rote memorization doesn't work for me and neither do mnemonics. It's dyslexia/dyscalculia or whatever, and was an unknown and unaccommodated issue when i was school age. At 42, my limits in these areas are not likely to change.

I wouldn't worry about theory/notation etc. I've been playing guitar for 35 years now and still have no idea what 95% of the chords I play are called. Something about minor and major 7ths is when I start getting glazed eyes. Probably better off not knowing - they might be jaaath chords.

Don't know where this snobbery is coming from about how people create things. Surely it's the end result that matters?

[jancivil]

Or look at someone like Deadmau5. He admits that he can't be bothered to learn how to play instruments. He clicks all his stuff into the piano roll, and it's almost cringe-inducing to watch a video of him work (nothing against sequencing, but it's just weird to see someone that famous with such little actual knowledge of music).

I can't play instruments either. I tried taking lessons when i was young, but no teacher ever felt like teaching me the instrument alone; they always wanted me to learn notation. Notation just doesn't work for me. I get the concepts, but i can't process them in my head. Rote memorization doesn't work for me and neither do mnemonics. It's dyslexia/dyscalculia or whatever, [...] not likely to change.

Yet i make music. Is my music invalid?

I'm not saying i like Deadmou5. I'm asking what you think his music work habits mean to the people that like his output. Clearly you're not one of those people. Are there no musicians that you like who are not classically trained? Does it matter when you like their output?

Here we encounter the fallacy of the excluded middle, twice. That the teachers you encountered would not do that (teach the instrument outside of notation) does not mean it can't be done.

Then there is the middle between 'classical musician' and 'clueless, lazy git in teh EDM field who can't be arsed'.

Where you position yourself here is really not for me to say, clearly.

Per 1), Paul McCartney does not read music and has no interest at all in theory. I don't know if he took lessons. I took classical guitar lessons, once at 14 when my mother thought it conferred some legitimacy on my incessant guitaring, or may have correctly assumed it would be a path to school one day. Then at 18 I did it again, as a path to school. BUT I became a rather passable lead guitarist in a couple of years with no lessons whatsoever.

Dweezil Zappa READS NO MUSIC. He did have lessons, from Ed Van Halen and Steve Vai. Briefly (though he may not have needed much). And he leads a band playing Frank's music for the last 11 yrs or so.

But again it isn't up to any of us to determine where you stand. It will probably still be a source of defensiveness for you going forward, unfortunately. But people your age (and older) have learned instruments. Personally, I think it's invaluable and the refusal to is generally just suspect. You have an excuse and I don't blame you but the pro-active thing would be to see if this deficiency (I said it, yeah) can be addressed. Or not! With regards...

[jancivil]

Don't know where this snobbery is coming from about how people create things. Surely it's the end result that matters?

The end result would seem to have something to do with the process. When you have people that are lazy, and yeah I think the result from most EDM, or all I have heard except special pleading cases where something that is something else gets lumped in granting it more respectability, is people with a belief they are entitled to *produce* that aren't really interested in music qua music, lazy gits with a great ego they got because their mother believed their turds to be golden or something, is a great ego tripping spectacle that validates the same dull shit in many, many people and hence signaling to all us in a great neon sign 'lazy'.

That makes me a snob I'm great with the label then.

[donkey tugger]

The end result would seem to have something to do with the process. When you have people that are lazy, and yeah I think the result from most EDM, or all I have heard except special pleading cases where something that is something else gets lumped in granting it more respectability, is people with a belief they are entitled to *produce* that aren't really interested in music qua music, lazy gits with a great ego they got because their mother believed their turds to be golden or something, is a great ego tripping spectacle that validates the same dull shit in many, many people and hence signaling to all us in a great neon sign 'lazy'.

Reductive you say eh?

[VariKusBrainZ]

Notation just doesn't work for me. I get the concepts, but i can't process them in my head. Rote memorization doesn't work for me and neither do mnemonics. It's dyslexia/dyscalculia or whatever, and was an unknown and unaccommodated issue when i was school age. At 42, my limits in these areas are not likely to change.

I must be really wasted as I dont remember typing any of that

But it totally applies to to me, I learned by playing by ear

No idea what mnemonia is though, is that a viral disease?

[woggle]

I read music for many years as a classical guitarist and I was okay at sight reading without being great. But I've not had a lot of use for it once I stopped learning new pieces written by other people. I have used different sorts of graphic notations, similar to drum notations, when working with people who could not read standard notation. When I was a (paid) reviewer of contemporary classical concerts I did like to get a recording of the concert and listen following the score (and composers notes). I found that pretty valuable when reviewing a piece like this ...

[VariKusBrainZ]

All of the women on 'KVR' flirted with me — consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected. A sexual dynamic is always present between people, unless you are asexual.

Totally, I had to tell deadmau6, no Im not into that.
Its just the music, click, copy, repeat

[donkey tugger]

Notation just doesn't work for me. I get the concepts, but i can't process them in my head. Rote memorization doesn't work for me and neither do mnemonics. It's dyslexia/dyscalculia or whatever, and was an unknown and unaccommodated issue when i was school age. At 42, my limits in these areas are not likely to change.

I must be really wasted as I dont remember typing any of that

But it totally applies to to me, I learned by playing by ear

No idea what mnemonia is though, is that a viral disease?

Whatever it is, it must be catching. Sorry!

[funky lime]

Don't know where this snobbery is coming from about how people create things. Surely it's the end result that matters?

The end result would seem to have something to do with the process. When you have people that are lazy, and yeah I think the result from most EDM, or all I have heard except special pleading cases where something that is something else gets lumped in granting it more respectability, is people with a belief they are entitled to *produce* that aren't really interested in music qua music, lazy gits with a great ego they got because their mother believed their turds to be golden or something, is a great ego tripping spectacle that validates the same dull shit in many, many people and hence signaling to all us in a great neon sign 'lazy'.

That makes me a snob I'm great with the label then.

I don't know that I'd call it "lazy." I mean, some of these producers release a ton of music. There's nothing lazy about constantly releasing new material. Whether it was clicked into a piano roll by a hack or painstakingly crafted by a master composer, I do admire the prolificacy (is that a word? it's a word now) and the willingness to grind away.

I was only commenting that it was painful to watch a video of him working, since I am someone who insists on playing all my parts in live to audio (I hate editing MIDI). I enjoy the challenge of building my chops to be able to translate the part I hear in my head into actual sound. I wasn't trying to say there is no merit in his craft, just that I could never work that way again (though ~20 years ago, I did work that way).

And what about the expert composers who write a symphony with just a pencil and staff paper, who never actually pick up an instrument the whole time? Are they lazy?