KVR Audio

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:55 pm

A full fledged DAW should not be considered for teaching in my opinion as a DAW for starters that young. If anything the Mac garage band would fit the bill in this case but unfortunately is not available on the PC.

Ejay if available is probably more suited to get them up and running and grabbing their attention then they will be interested enough to learn a more complicated DAW, but that's not free.

What ever choice you make hopefully it will keep em interested and not bored out of their minds trying to produce without the menus and hurrdles that plague some of these DAW suggestions for these youngsters although they may be more tech savvy then many of us here...me mostly.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Pretty much. Kids tend to learn fast so they (those interested anyway) will learn anything you put in front of them if the course is designed to facilitate that, not jumping all over the place for instant gratification, but teaching the concepts from the ground up in some kind of logical order.

That's an issue with a lot modern adult daw users actually, having no audio background and looking at a DAW for the first time and not knowing much about the basics or fundamentals (What's a bus???) ... then stack on computer literacy in general or lack of... it's a curve, learning it all at the same time.

Kids, when they're engaged, learn fast though. You could probably teach a 10 year old PT faster than an adult who thinks he already knows it all because he used Cubase.

reusenoise · Post by **reusenoise** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:10 pm

Maybe web app,so no installation problem,and it can be use everywhere
Audiotool https://www.audiotool.com/product

and the non flash version in beta stage
https://next.audiotool.com/

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:14 pm

LawrenceF wrote:Pretty much. Kids tend to learn fast so they (those interested anyway) will learn anything you put in front of them if the course is designed to facilitate that, not jumping all over the place for instant gratification, but teaching the concepts from the ground up in some kind of logical order.

That's an issue with a lot modern adult daw users actually, having no audio background and looking at a DAW for the first time and not knowing much about the basics or fundamentals (What's a bus???) ... then stack on computer literacy in general or lack of... it's a curve, learning it all at the same time.

Kids, when they're engaged, learn fast though. You could probably teach a 10 year old PT faster than an adult who thinks he already knows it all because he used Cubase.

Well, there's a difference between "learning", and actually understanding something.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:21 pm

chk071 wrote:Well, there's a difference between "learning", and actually understanding something.

True. In a classroom setting if "understanding" is not inherently built into the goal or the course then... it's kind of a waste of time to even be in the classroom. That's the entire point of structured learning, understanding.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:33 pm

As i mentioned, i have a hard time believing that 8-9 year olds would be able to understand the concepts of most DAW's which are used around here. There is a also a understanding of musical concepts necessary, among other things. Frankly, i'd rather start with something like Steinberg Sequel, Magix Music Maker, or Garageband (which already require some of that as well). I don't know, if there's something similar available for free.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:01 pm

I would respectfully disagree. Kids can learn most anything we can learn. As we speak, some 8-9-10 year olds are learning robotics and C++ and everything else. Daws are really not all that difficult to learn. You just teach one thing at a time like anything else.

Some of us may like to feel that we have some special knowledge of operating a daw. Not really. It's just a software program and anyone of any level of common intelligence can learn any software program.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:12 pm

LawrenceF wrote:I would respectfully disagree. Kids can learn most anything we can learn. As we speak, some 8-9-10 year olds are learning robotics and C++ and everything else.

Would you agree that not every kid is capable of learning robotics and C++?

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:17 pm

These youngsters don't really need a DAW they probably can already "do it" on their smart phones.

DAW's as we know them won't be around when they reach an age to practically use them to their full potential. Youtube has more success in that area already. The desktop DAW will soon take ii's place along side console systems like Amiga.

Pretty grim huh....

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:55 pm

CTStump wrote:These youngsters don't really need a DAW they probably can already "do it" on their smart phones.

DAW's as we know them won't be around when they reach an age to practically use them to their full potential. Youtube has more success in that area already. The desktop DAW will soon take ii's place along side console systems like Amiga.

Pretty grim huh....

of course it could the concept of a "phone" that is doomed, small phone size powerful computers that we carry with us for communications as well could be the future (that's prettymuch what they are now) and DAWs as we know it could thrive. I often think sooner or later a phone company is going to declare their phone to powerful to reduce it to a phone suggesting telecommunications as it's primary function. You walk into you entertainment room and your device becomes home theater or a music player connecting with the appropriate peripherals wirelessly and automatically. You walk into a kitchen and it becomes a control center for your appliances and of course you walk into your studio and it connects to studio gear. (your car, office, bedroom, stores, it has "brain" for all)

I get the notion of desktops disappearing but I think that's half the story. Towers? Yes, bulky, noisy and it takes a lot of power in a low carbon footprint world, better would be just memory, a way to see it and hardware. But there is a few things in the audio word that demand some size, like for instance visual monitors. In fact monitors are still growing in size and while some people who could get along with a phone or tablet size screen there are many begging for bigger which also goes hand in hand with with touch screen or gesture based activation of features and functions.

Some marketing exec will coin a new term starting with some catch phrase like "not just a phone, more than a smart phone, it's a ________" (fill in the blank). Sorry for the OT

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 pm

chk071 wrote:Would you agree that not every kid is capable of learning robotics and C++?

For sure. I would say if a kid is interested and has a good teacher, most could though. We're kinda getting off track but that's not abnormal and any parent that would put those kinds of arbitrary limits on their kid out of hand is not a very good parent. See the links below.

http://www.gettingsmart.com/2016/01/how ... y-schools/

https://education.makewonder.com/robotics-competition

The Wonder League Robotics Competition started in 2015 and has reached more than 24,000 kids in just two years. This growing network of coding and robotics clubs uses our all-inclusive program to inspire an early love of coding, computer science, tangible learning and STEM education.

Through a series of story-based missions, the teams develop problem-solving, growth mindset, and creativity skills through learning to code. Last year, we invited international teams to participate, and Team X-PLODE, the 6-8 age category grand prize winners, hailed all the way from Bangalore, India.

The grand prize winners for ages 9-12 was an all-girls team, The Pink Eagles, from Hartland, Michigan, who gained national notoriety for their dedication and persistence.

But sure, science, and music, and sports, and other things, is not for everyone. Agree.

Scrubbing Monkeys · Post by **Scrubbing Monkeys** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:03 pm

LawrenceF wrote:I would respectfully disagree. Kids can learn most anything we can learn. As we speak, some 8-9-10 year olds are learning robotics and C++ and everything else. Daws are really not all that difficult to learn. You just teach one thing at a time like anything else.

Some of us may like to feel that we have some special knowledge of operating a daw. Not really. It's just a software program and anyone of any level of common intelligence can learn any software program.

Word!!!

woggle · Post by **woggle** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:19 pm

LawrenceF wrote:I would respectfully disagree. Kids can learn most anything we can learn. As we speak, some 8-9-10 year olds are learning robotics and C++ and everything else. Daws are really not all that difficult to learn. You just teach one thing at a time like anything else.

Some of us may like to feel that we have some special knowledge of operating a daw. Not really. It's just a software program and anyone of any level of common intelligence can learn any software program.

this is not correct - kids cannot learn most everything we (adults) can learn. If you had been involved in STEM teaching things like Robotics to children you would know this. Where I taught our faculty had robotics education programs for young people from about 2000. A number of my colleagues were internationally famous researchers in teaching STEM to children, developing both technologies and pedagogies. By claiming that any child can learn anything an adult can you are unwittingly stigmatising most children who cannot.
There has been a huge effort for decades in developing appropriate pedagogical theory and instrument for optimising learning environments for children. That is because children are not just a blank slate but require different learning environments according to both their experience and their brain maturation.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:38 pm

I agree with everything you say above except for the part where you misquoted me. I never said kids can learn "everything" adults can, I said kids can learn "most everything" adults can like that, in a certain context, and to your other correct point, if the learning is structured and paced correctly towards the target audience.

I think you're absolutely right.

Back on topic, even the most complex DAW, PT, Nuendo, whatever, can be reduced to something very simple, to teach basic concepts. Just because there's tons of complex layers and features underneath doesn't mean anyone has to use them right away, or ever.

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:36 am

Touch The Universe wrote:The simplest daw in existence is Orion by synapse audio. It is discontinued, but, rich is a nice guy. If you send him a message, he may be willing to accommodate you (worth a shot atleast). You will have to ask for a demo to see if you think it will work out.

It removes entirely all clutter and allows one to focus entirely on synths, piano roll and playlist. Nothing could possibly be a better choice imo.

He might be willing to give out licenses for a good cause since its not bringing any income in anyways.

business@synapse-audio.com

good luck with that.
if you find a working copy let me know.
i doubt it though. it stopped development some time ago.
it was good though. i suppose a cut down version of FL is close-ish ( if there is such a thing).
if you want to cover older DAWs , acid music studio would be ideal. very easy to learn out of the box..

Best free DAW (January 2018) for teaching young pupils: Traction 6, Podium, Studio One or another?