Logic Pro v10.4 is out

[machinesworking]

DP's odd MIDI limitation is no MIDI directly on VI's. Theoretically it seems possible, I'll mess around and see what I can come up with.

Funny enough, I don't see that as a limitation. I like to work that way - it resembles the way I worked when there was only MIDI.

I have the instrument track where I can process the sound of that instrument, etc. but the MIDI is a separare affair, that is done in MIDI tracks that are then routed anywhere I want (including virtual instruments). Cubase has both ways. Logic, AFAIK, only allows to work the DP/Cubase way if we create routings in the environment - no way to do that directly in the Arrangement.

It's not that bad in DP for the most part, it can seem really cluttered having two tracks for each soft synth, especially when they're not multitimbral. The way I usually work in DP is to put VI's into DP's virtual racks (V-Racks) that are outside of the tracks windows, so only the MIDI track is sitting near audio tracks. The issue with this is no track automation, works pretty well with Kontakt sample libraries where you're likely to use MIDI automation anyway, but in general it's not elegant.. IMO MIDI is one area it's looking like Cubase and Reaper are ahead of the pack in, but I admit it's got to be a minor issue for most people considering no one mentions it.
I almost chose Reaper as a replacement for DP until it gets VCA faders, but Logic is way more universally supported hardware wise, even with this multiple hardware port limitation on VI's. I bought a Slate Raven to replace the Mackie Control and Slate currently aren't working on a template for Reaper, but the Logic one is almost as advanced as the Pro Tools one.
I think I'm still gonna get into Reaper further as well, it's cheap enough to be a cross platform and common collaborating solution. it's just sad that it doesn't work with the Raven..

Back to Logic, I'm not going to let this snag get me down, even if in the end I only use it to mix down, the fact that the thing has VCA faders alone should 100% fix my issues with mix down in DP. Oh, and since v8 when I last used it a few DP type concepts have worked their way into Logic, the project versions stored in an open project is a lot like DP's Chunks for instance! This is huge, after committing project to audio tracks it's IMO great to have the MIDI version still there in the project.

[Enkerli]

Now that MPE is officially a standard, wonder if Logic will gain new competitors in the MPE-savvy section of the DAW market.

AFAICT, the main DAWs which currently support MPE are (in no particular order): Logic Pro X, Bitwig Studio (and 8-Track), Steinberg Cubase, and Tracktion Waveform. (Anything missing from this list?)
Any chance Cockos Reaper, Ableton Live, Avid Pro Tools, Presonus Studio One, and Propellerhead Reason might gain MPE support in the near future?

And since JUCE is owned by ROLI, maybe devs will get better tools to build in MPE support?

To be honest, MPE was an important part of what attracted me to Logic. It does have several other neat features for my needs, but MPE has already become a “must-have”, for me. Wouldn’t invest much in some musicking tool which doesn’t support it in one way or another. For instance, lack of MPE support in Ableton Live 10 “sealed the deal”, for me. Won’t invest more energy learning how to do stuff in Live and certainly won’t pay for a license.

[nordickvr]

The Environment, for a MidIdiot like me, is 'teh FORBIDDEN ZONE!'

Note that AU midi effect can replace the Environment for many things.
In a much easier way!
In fact it does things the Environment cannot.
Easy access to Fader (to get control over any parameters exposed to Logic) being one example.
For the ones willing to dive into some Javascript coding
(Using the Scripter), possibilities expand seriously.

[jonljacobi]

I don't use the environment often enough to really comment too much on it, but as far as routing is concerned, Jo's Mulab is quite nice.

[virtualpt]

Here is something else very interesting: Custom Artic setup for 3rd party libraries! If they use keyswitches, it seems pretty simple!

EDIT: Ok, No success with VSL Mapping, but I assume I am doing something wrong. Success with Kontakt Cellos, though!

Edit 2: Got it going with VSL! W00t!

This is a complete game changer for me. I can finally use my libraries in a semi-coherent manner!

Thanks Bombadil, super useful video

[Bombadil]

Here is something else very interesting: Custom Artic setup for 3rd party libraries! If they use keyswitches, it seems pretty simple!

EDIT: Ok, No success with VSL Mapping, but I assume I am doing something wrong. Success with Kontakt Cellos, though!

Edit 2: Got it going with VSL! W00t!

This is a complete game changer for me. I can finally use my libraries in a semi-coherent manner!

Thanks Bombadil, super useful video

You're welcome, but the more I've played with it, the more flaky it seems to be. It does not work properly with Sampletank 3 (not that I am surprised).

So far, I've been successful with:
VSL SEs:
Kontakt libraries;
ERA-Medieval Legends Recorder Consort (Engine libraries);

Hopefully, whatever issues cause these inconsistencies will be ironed out in the next update.

Anyways, good luck, and have fun!

The Environment, for a MidIdiot like me, is 'teh FORBIDDEN ZONE!'

Note that AU midi effect can replace the Environment for many things.
In a much easier way!
In fact it does things the Environment cannot.
Easy access to Fader (to get control over any parameters exposed to Logic) being one example.
For the ones willing to dive into some Javascript coding
(Using the Scripter), possibilities expand seriously.

Thanks, yes I know. I did once build an arpeggiator in the Environment, and have used the 'Transform' function a few times. When I saw the Arpeggiator in the AU MIDI FX, I figured that, under the hood, is some mega Macro in the environment.

[pdxindy]

Now that MPE is officially a standard, wonder if Logic will gain new competitors in the MPE-savvy section of the DAW market.

AFAICT, the main DAWs which currently support MPE are (in no particular order): Logic Pro X, Bitwig Studio (and 8-Track), Steinberg Cubase, and Tracktion Waveform. (Anything missing from this list?)
Any chance Cockos Reaper, Ableton Live, Avid Pro Tools, Presonus Studio One, and Propellerhead Reason might gain MPE support in the near future?

And since JUCE is owned by ROLI, maybe devs will get better tools to build in MPE support?

To be honest, MPE was an important part of what attracted me to Logic. It does have several other neat features for my needs, but MPE has already become a “must-have”, for me. Wouldn’t invest much in some musicking tool which doesn’t support it in one way or another. For instance, lack of MPE support in Ableton Live 10 “sealed the deal”, for me. Won’t invest more energy learning how to do stuff in Live and certainly won’t pay for a license.

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

The MPE support is flexible enough in Logic to deal with all the various synths which support, or semi-support the MPE standard. For example, I can fully use the u-he synths even though they don't currently have the CC74 as a modulator. Bitwig cannot do that.

The lack of MPE support for Live 10 means no upgrade for me. I'm gonna sell my Live 9 Studio license. Time to move on cause MPE is too central for me at this point.

Right now, if you really want to fully use MPE with the widest range of synths, use Logic or Cubase.

[machinesworking]

Unless it’s broken Reaper supports MPE.

I don’t own any MPE devices so I can’t test it, but the setup routine on Roli’s site indicates MPE support, i.e. not ten or more tracks all pointing to the Roli, just one.

[Enkerli]

Unless it’s broken Reaper supports MPE.

Thanks!

Eventually saw Reaper in the MIDI.org list, even though searches for MPE and Reaper didn’t give me expected results.
Could be a dealmaker, for me. Will give Reaper its fair share (trying it for 60 day and maybe paying for an individual license if it suits my needs). But will delve into Logic Pro X 10.4 in the meantime.

The differences in MPE implementations also matter. How do DAWs handle the CC messages on multiple channels? The way Tracktion Waveform does it is rather cool, as you can really work on a single note’s expression or work through the whole phrase. Still in the early stages of learning Logic Pro X, so it’s still a bit unclear what we can do with channel data after recording, but at least the DAW records MPE the way it should.

[machinesworking]

Could be a dealmaker, for me. Will give Reaper its fair share (trying it for 60 day and maybe paying for an individual license if it suits my needs). But will delve into Logic Pro X 10.4 in the meantime.

That's exactly where I'm at, although I think I will end up using Logic more than Reaper, (I used Logic from v4 to v8), I intend to continue to look into Reaper.

My hunch is eventually I'll end up in Reaper more than Logic over time, it really depends on whether I ever get to the point in Reaper that I was in Logic as far as key commands and screen sets etc. Also it really depends on whether Slate ever make a template for the Raven for Reaper. The DP9 one is pretty good, and the Logic one is outstanding looking, definitely getting it!

[Jace-BeOS]

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

Are you able to get Sculpture's MPE ("MIDI Mono Mode") to work in Logic 10.4? Out of the Logic Instruments that support it, I can get each of them EXCEPT Sculpture to work from Logic Control on iOS. Sculpture just continues to play in normal non-MIDI Mono Mode despite enabling it.

[pdxindy]

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

Are you able to get Sculpture's MPE ("MIDI Mono Mode") to work in Logic 10.4? Out of the Logic Instruments that support it, I can get each of them EXCEPT Sculpture to work from Logic Control on iOS. Sculpture just continues to play in normal non-MIDI Mono Mode despite enabling it.

I had not tried Sculpture in 10.4 yet... but just did and MPE more is working as expected.

[Jace-BeOS]

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

Are you able to get Sculpture's MPE ("MIDI Mono Mode") to work in Logic 10.4? Out of the Logic Instruments that support it, I can get each of them EXCEPT Sculpture to work from Logic Control on iOS. Sculpture just continues to play in normal non-MIDI Mono Mode despite enabling it.

I had not tried Sculpture in 10.4 yet... but just did and MPE more is working as expected.

Thanks for checking it out. That means the problem is the Logic Remote app. i'm one version behind because of the newest version only supporting iOS 11, so i can't check to see if it's a bug fixed in the newest version. Sigh.

[pdxindy]

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

Are you able to get Sculpture's MPE ("MIDI Mono Mode") to work in Logic 10.4? Out of the Logic Instruments that support it, I can get each of them EXCEPT Sculpture to work from Logic Control on iOS. Sculpture just continues to play in normal non-MIDI Mono Mode despite enabling it.

I had not tried Sculpture in 10.4 yet... but just did and MPE more is working as expected.

Thanks for checking it out. That means the problem is the Logic Remote app. i'm one version behind because of the newest version only supporting iOS 11, so i can't check to see if it's a bug fixed in the newest version. Sigh.

I have the latest Logic Remote on my iPad. I only installed it recently and have tried it once to see that it works. What are the steps to try and reproduce your problem?

[Jace-BeOS]

I originally purchased Logic because I wanted Sculpture. But it is the MPE support which made it a regular DAW for me.

Are you able to get Sculpture's MPE ("MIDI Mono Mode") to work in Logic 10.4? Out of the Logic Instruments that support it, I can get each of them EXCEPT Sculpture to work from Logic Control on iOS. Sculpture just continues to play in normal non-MIDI Mono Mode despite enabling it.

I had not tried Sculpture in 10.4 yet... but just did and MPE more is working as expected.

Thanks for checking it out. That means the problem is the Logic Remote app. i'm one version behind because of the newest version only supporting iOS 11, so i can't check to see if it's a bug fixed in the newest version. Sigh.

I have the latest Logic Remote on my iPad. I only installed it recently and have tried it once to see that it works. What are the steps to try and reproduce your problem?

Try to play Sculpture in MIDI Mono Mode from the Logic Remote app (try independent pitch slide per note while playing multiple notes at once). I can't get it to play any way but standard (no MPE-type expression per note).

The other instruments that have the MIDI Mono Mode setting work for me. Sculpture is the only one that doesn't.