Do samples kill the *real* electronic music?

[camplo]

"[...] musical impact hip-hop did."

Hip hop is largely amusical. It has negligible impact on musical culture, speaking as a musician. ?

I had things to say....I just can't.....lmao! sorry but this comment is hysterical.

[risome]

Spotify is the killer creative use of sampling and using samples is not

[camplo]

Where is HipHops John Cage? Gtfo you wierdo rofl

[Woodgardens]

Nah, it's the g-g-g-g-glitches

[whyterabbyt]

It would appear you have_no_idea what Stockhausen or Cage did.

Pity that the historical evidence from the past ten-plus years here is that cron is one of the rather few people around here who does.

But hey, nobody with a different opinion from you could ever know what they're talking about, right?

Right. Show me the "historical evidence" came to light in the past ten years which makes that true. Seriously. What are you even talking about.

We call them 'posts'. They're little contributions of text which people make for permanent display on this bulletin board.
If you need a further explanation of how whether someone's posts here over the past yen years might indicate whether they have a knowledge of what Cage and Stockhausen did, please feel free to ask,

Your last sentence is absurd and just stupid.

Far less so than your assertion that cron was speaking from a position of ignorance of Cage and Stockhausen.

[whyterabbyt]

What are we talking about? How can we prove our opinions? That's mine, rabbyt take it or leave it.

No idea what you're wittering on about now, that quote wasnt from me, and I really have no interest in your opinion.

You didn't even argue an idea or really make any argument

Nor was I intending to. My intent was solely to point out that you didnt make an argument, you just dismissed cron's opinion as borne of less knowledge than you, whilst implying than anyone who had 'enough' knowledge would agree with your 'insight'.

Ad hominem, in place of saying anything I mean.

That's rather hypocritical, since my post was a rebuttal of your ad hominem. Projection much?

Which geniuses in hip hop are going to stand the test of time in the area of music? Where is their John Cage?

Well, the utterly fallacious nature of that 'challenge' deserves this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GZA

Meanwhile, you could maybe try making your case with a little less screeching outrage.

[whyterabbyt]

BTW a interesting challenge would be to create an entire composition made exclusively with copyright samples ...cheating would be using a single custom-made sample ?

I did this several years back for one of the KVR competitions, with the additional condition I added for myself that every single copyrighted sample used was an identifiable fragment from a famous song where there had been a successful music copyright lawsuit against it (eg Bittersweet Symphony)

It really wasnt that great, but I didnt get sued myself. Though that sort of disappointed me in a way.

[elxsound]

Yes, that would be disappointing.

[cron]

Oh shit, we've not half been talking at cross purposes then. When you said "It would appear you have_no_idea what Stockhausen or Cage did." I thought you meant they'd already recycled other people's music as a modus operandi and I was unaware of it! Here's me trying to stretch my brain beyond Cage's works incorporating live radio broadcasts and certain iterations of his Mix works....

A while ago we had a conversation about whether music has intrinsic value (i.e. if nobody hears it) and I think that's where the disconnect lies. I'm taking my judgement from a position that heavily factors culture into the equation, so I should really be saying "radical musical movement" rather than "radical music". While I still believe that "talking over other people music" or using other people's music as a live performance instrument via turntablism would be considered furthest reaches of the avant garde were it not for overfamiliarity, my position comes more from these (at the time) extraordinarily novel concepts achieving mass traction in such a short space of time.

From a pure musicology standpoint, I'm with you. It's Cage and Cowell all the way...

[jancivil]

It's actually funny for me to see advocacy for hip hop as something in the context here.
I've lived in OAKLAND since 2006. Some of it in East Oakland.

I just heard a record by the "legendary" SHOWBIZ (which is supposed to reference the history of hip hop or so the hype has it). Or a demo for it, he and his crew are too commercial to put whole tracks on Youtube, you know. So it's half a minute of a track then the next one.

Some of it was surprising. I got a gist of the record, no doubt. I have to say that at this point and for a long, long time, the impact works the other way. If there's anything interesting on a record like this, it brings in influences from, you know, the wide world of music.

All the rhythms can be traced to funk music. Period. Recycling stuff that's already extant is not all that creative. I was aware of the new angle to some of the rhythms by the late 80s. I wasn't all that steeped in it or keeping up with trends but it was around and people I knew were kind of into some things, basically it was politically correct, you know. So I don't think I'm in this vast majority of people at this primarily British forum that aren't in the know. Nor am I part of the ignorami regarding avant-garde music.

[jancivil]

You didn't even argue an idea or really make any argument

Nor was I intending to. My intent was solely to point out that you didnt make an argument, you just dismissed cron's opinion as borne of less knowledge than you, whilst implying than anyone who had 'enough' knowledge would agree with your 'insight'.

Ad hominem, in place of saying anything I mean.

That's rather hypocritical, since my post was a rebuttal of your ad hominem. Projection much?.

No, I indicated I believed he was ignorant. Using this term ad hominem indicates that one has used an argument at the person in lieu of making an argument on point. You cannot reasonably say I committed argumentum ad hominem (absent which the use of the term 'ad hominem', at the man, has no real meaning) while saying I didn't make an argument. And by the time you posted this crap I had made the argument.

So all you did was this ad hominem at me. And it's all you're doing now. And it's not the smarter than you look you want, it's just stupid, pointless rancor. I wasn't addressing you but you jumped on me with a beef. I disagree with a lot of opinions and say nothing, it's life. Some things are kind of beyond the pale and that shite was one of them.

If your objection was to me having no clue about something, that implies you have an argument to make. The only one you have is demonstrated herein as pure ad hom. Beyond that, desperate flailing about incompetently trying to normalize the shit.

"I'm not interested in your opinion" - well, you were, or it wouldn't have spurred you to react. Ignore me, for real, why not.

muted

[herodotus]

All the rhythms can be traced to funk music. Period. Recycling stuff that's already extant is not all that creative.

I have no trouble with recycling extant stuff. Nor would I use the word 'recycling' to characterize the use of samples in the hip-hop I have heard. I would call it, rather, 'quoting'. But it is a new and unusual kind of quoting, because it involves quoting the same lines, over and over and over, in an obvious way, and with few if any musical transformations. I think, to avoid confusion, that we should call this new and innovative type of quoting via samples 'super-quoting'.

To clarify, this is what I would call "recycling":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vugqRAX7xQE

And this is what I would call "super-quoting":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHuc2XErjE

For myself, I much prefer recycling to super-quoting, but there is no accounting for taste.

[t3toooo]

One Concert will remain in my memory,Grandmaster Flash,Saw them Live 1983 as a Kid and i tell you the atmosphere was gorgeous.
Here they are live.


I've learned that this style of music was meant to keep the kids away from crime and drugs after a hard time,think of Bronx and Brooklyn in the 70's.
Some guys begun to put some turntables in abandoned houses and sing along to records and so Hip Hop was born.

Some years later,i still enjoyed the pioneers but i've learned that the actual message was more and more turned around 180 degrees.Slowly Hip Hop commercialized.
You know the rest.

[t3toooo]

[egbert101]

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