Logic Pro v10.4 is out

[v1o]

The only reason Logic costs $200 every time to upgrade is because Apple’s App Store eco system doesn’t have functionality for upgrade pricing. It’s like that for all apps on the store, you literally have to make a fresh purchase whenever a new version is released. It is anti consumer and many App Store developers have complained but that’s just the way it is.

That is false... twice

Logic doesn't cost $200 every time to upgrade and you don't have to make a fresh purchase whenever a upgrade is released. Only for paid upgrades.

Logic Pro X was released 4 years ago. Since that time it has received multiple paid upgrades worth of new features across many individual updates. 10.4 alone is as big as many companies paid upgrades. At the rate Apple is going, it will be another 4-5 years before Apple even gets to a version 11.

Getting 5-6-7 years of major updates for free is not anti-consumer.

You are purposefully spreading false information. Logic 9 and Logic X were paid version upgrades. Points updates like with most DAWs are free of course. A point update is obviously very different to a version upgrade. So please do not purposely mislead.

Getting free point updates is industry standard practice. Live had them for five years. What is not standard is paying full price for new version upgrades.

[jacqueslacouth]

The only reason Logic costs $200 every time to upgrade is because Apple’s App Store eco system doesn’t have functionality for upgrade pricing. It’s like that for all apps on the store, you literally have to make a fresh purchase whenever a new version is released. It is anti consumer and many App Store developers have complained but that’s just the way it is.

That is false... twice

Logic doesn't cost $200 every time to upgrade and you don't have to make a fresh purchase whenever a upgrade is released. Only for paid upgrades.

Logic Pro X was released 4 years ago. Since that time it has received multiple paid upgrades worth of new features across many individual updates. 10.4 alone is as big as many companies paid upgrades. At the rate Apple is going, it will be another 4-5 years before Apple even gets to a version 11.

Getting 5-6-7 years of major updates for free is not anti-consumer.

You are purposefully spreading false information. Logic 9 and Logic X were paid version upgrades. Points updates like with most DAWs are free of course. A point update is obviously very different to a version upgrade. So please do not purposely mislead.

Look, I am the last person to defend anything Apple does, but there is nothing misleading about what pdxindy is saying. In the case of Logic Pro X, the point updates have been huge, in fact more than you often see in version updates of other DAWs. And just for the record, Steinberg has a nasty habit of charging for point updates which compared to what Logic includes for free are somewhat skimpy.

And if you don't believe me...

https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT203718

The point updates are at the bottom of each page.

[Enkerli]

What would be the best path for someone to start learning Logic Pro X now, with version 10.4? Is Groove3 my best bet?

Been going through the “Essential Training” by Scott Hirsch on Lynda.com (free subscription through our local library), but it’s based on the original version of Logic Pro X. Problem with that is that there are enough differences between that version and 10.4 that it gets a bit confusing.

The advantage with Groove3 is that they already had material on 10.4, very quickly after launch. Even then, it’s about “What’s new in 10.4”, not “here’s how to learn Logic Pro X at this point in time”, AFAICT.

Of course, there are so many use cases for using a DAW that it’s very hard to have a whole “soup to nuts” approach which would work for everyone. So maybe that’ll take time to be produced with some 10.4 features in mind. A big part of this is that Smart Tempo could change a big part of the workflow. Became especially aware of the issue with Lynda.com videos when noticing that the default Quantize was now “Classic Quantize”. When you realize that there’s also Smart Quantize, Groove Track, and Smart Tempo, that one explanation of quantization feels really limiting.

Ideally, would like something which is inspiring in its musical content. There’s a ton of videos around which describe features without really giving much of an idea of what things can sound like. My imagination can fill in some of those blanks, but a good teacher would open my ears much more than that.

Maybe something like this already exists for 10.3 without being too jarring for 10.4 users?

[Bombadil]

I would expect macprovideo.com will have some soon, but I don't know. They seem to be trying to move toward online live classes. $299. Nope, not for me.

[liquidsound]

Free but quite great videos.

[dumbledog]

I would expect macprovideo.com will have some soon, but I don't know. They seem to be trying to move toward online live classes. $299. Nope, not for me.

They already have one... and it's free.

Did audio to midi get moved? Used to be you flex pitched, then it was in the Edit menu of the main editor. Can't find it now.

[Bombadil]

I would expect macprovideo.com will have some soon, but I don't know. They seem to be trying to move toward online live classes. $299. Nope, not for me.

They already have one... and it's free.

Did audio to midi get moved? Used to be you flex pitched, then it was in the Edit menu of the main editor. Can't find it now.

That's just an intro course. I meant more in detail. I don't know the answer to your question, because I use Melodyne.

[dumbledog]

I found it -- it's in the lower edit window, not the upper one. I use it like once a year and never remember

[Winstontaneous]

What would be the best path for someone to start learning Logic Pro X now, with version 10.4? Is Groove3 my best bet?

I've found Eli Krantzberg's Logic update videos on Groove 3 very helpful. Also worth going to https://www.logicprohelp.com/ - it's run by David Nahmani who writes the Apple Certified Logic book.

[machinesworking]

I'm disappointed with the core development of Live over the past 5 years. It' been very slow. I don't consider that lucky. If there were a couple paid upgrades over that time, I would have preferred that. Then I actually have a choice to pay some money to get some functionality I want.

As for upgrade or update... just pointless semantics when it comes to functionality. Zebra has not had an 'upgrade' for 10 years but it has developed a huge amount in that time.

It's 100% not pointless semantics. One means free, one costs money. If you want people to follow what you're saying you don't mix up terms that are universal at this point in the DAW communities. What you're trying to say is Logic and Zebra 2 have been amazing products for you with updates equivalent to other developers paid upgrades.

You might not like where Live went with updates, but the improvements to Simpler alone would be an upgrade in other DAWs. The improvements are vast, especially if you own Push. https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-9/
Same applies with DP, the features from 9.0 to .51 have been huge. Same with Reaper.
Logic has a vast amount, probably the top of this list for sure, but it's not the reason why it should be considered OK that the cost of Logic "upgrades" are the same as buying it new the first time. It's the same price as it's competitors upgrade prices, that's just the truth of it, almost every other DAW kicks you hard in the wallet upon initial purchase.
Like I said in an earlier post I must be lucky, because all my DAWs are offering 3-4 year cycles for paid upgrades and lots of updates along the way.

[machinesworking]

Getting free point updates is industry standard practice. Live had them for five years. What is not standard is paying full price for new version upgrades.

Live is a good example of why your point is hollow though:

Live Studio costs $559.00 to initially buy. I've used Live since version 3, never skipped an upgrade and my upgrade price from 9 Suite to 10 Suite is "discounted to $229, the regular price will be $299.

Owned Logic since v4, skipped 9. Price for X is $199, price for XI is going to be $199.

Live will never be as cheap to upgrade as Logic is to buy up front, so how is it anti consumer to have the model Apple have? Cubase is also more up front with more frequent paid upgrades, same with Pro Tools, DP etc.

[machinesworking]

To add to that, Reaper is $60, arguably less plug ins means it should only be $60 compared to Logic, of course that's ignoring DAW features like better VCA faders, Spectral editing etc. No one I can think of is batting an eyelid at the fact that Reaper also has no upgrade price, and the upgrade cycle being 1.0 from where you started (4.7 to 5.7 etc.), is 5 years or more at times.

Probably because Cuckos are not Apple, so no one ascribes nefarious intentions behind what is exactly the same business model.

[aMUSEd]

I bought the Groove3 10.4 update videos but so far they seem to have missed out anything on ARA2 which is a pity as it's the one thing I can't work out how to use (I already have Melodyne Essential).

[Bombadil]

ARA 2 will only work with the latest Melodyne, which is still in beta, as far as I've read.

[aMUSEd]

Ah, they could have made that clearer