Logic Pro v10.4 is out

[machinesworking]

ARA 2 will only work with the latest Melodyne, which is still in beta, as far as I've read.

Yeah this was one of the main reasons I bought Logic X. It's going to integrate nicely with my existing environment, Melodyne Studio and Slate Raven don't work in Reaper, Live and DP like they will in Logic. Plus I used Logic for years, so new DAW sluggishness is minimized.

The biggest downside is the lack of MIDI out from virtual instruments like Maschine. In DP and Live I can switch between Scenes using key commands I can fire off from a keyboard. In Logic it seems you need to use program change messages to do that since no plug in developer that know of has implemented MIDI out from AU's, probably because Logic isn't capable.

[Jace-BeOS]

I'm a "learn by doing" kind of person, so I recommend that to other people. You can't usually hurt anything by making mistakes while experimenting. I know many people aren't comfortable with that and want to be guided through unfamiliar territory. Still, how unfamiliar is Logic 10.4?

I am learning Logic 10.4 just now, after having used Logic 9 (it replaced v8, which was my first exposure to Logic). It's a bigger change for me, compared to someone who moved to Logic X when it first came out a few years ago. Still, I'm not finding it overwhelming. It's mostly cosmetic. I didn't find learning Logic 8 overwhelming back in the day because I had started from the background of being a Sonar user (which was itself built upon being a Cakewalk Pro Audio user, which was itself built upon being a Master Tracks Pro user, etc).

The basic features of Logic are intuitive and similar enough to prior versions (and other products) that I can find my way around. When I have a question or a problem, I look up the answer in the included help/documentation, and then I'll check online forums if I still need an answer. The Logic Pro Help forum, as mentioned earlier, is a great place to go for specific questions not found in the documentation.

Structured learning of software, from videos or tutorials, tends to be too basic, or too structured, for my taste. Sometimes a short tutorial is nice, but structured learning materials are usually out of date and often cost money I don't have. I've tried some pay-to-watch tutorials and it wasn't worth the subscription cost to me when I already knew most of what it offered (and it was problematic to follow when its demonstrations were on different versions of the software from what I owned). Advanced usage is often not even covered in such videos. (Are there quality videos for learning the Environment?)

I perused the "what's new" docs for Logic 10.0 through 10.4 to give myself an awareness of what has been added since version 9.x. So far, I'm going through my projects and converting them from Logic 9 to 10.4, and this is requiring me to learn where the cheese has been moved but I'm not yet tinkering with new features. I'll likely rely on the included documentation to learn the new features, because it's often sufficient (and then online forums if I have unanswered questions or experience problems).

[Jace-BeOS]

It's the first time I tried the Logic Remote keyboard (I have a Linnstrument). It does seem something is not right with Sculpture. I think the MPE is working, however, the pitch range is very small (even though set correctly) so you hardly hear it. Over an octave slide is less than a half step. Even just a single note does not pitchbend the correct amount. Changing the pitch range on Sculpture seems to have no effect.

Alchemy works as expected.

I also tried the Fretboard with Sculpture and that bends as expected.

Oh i couldn't get independent pitch bends at all in Sculpture. If you are getting even a little bit, that's more than what i experienced. Though when i set up EXS24 or ES2 with MIDI Mono Mode, the range was huge. The setting for pitch bend range in the instrument might be responsible for this, but i don't see why it was dramatically different from patch to patch when they were all set to 48 semitones.

EDIT: Logic Remote is the only controller i have that can do MPE. i am hoping to eventually get that one iPad synth from Jordan Rudess' software developer, to use as an MPE MIDI controller, and ultimately i want something like a Roli Seaboard. But for now, i'd be happy if Logic's Logic Remote would work consistently for this purpose just in Logic.

Can you get a the correct pitchbend with Sculpture even with just 1 note?

I'm not sure. It seems much more subtle than ES2, for example, but I've not measured the shift. I was more focused on the MPE aspect than on the pitchbend's accuracy.

[Jace-BeOS]

The Kontakt 3 player worked fine with several large multi-instruments. I did not kick the tires thoroughly. Just a few minutes.

Thanks for sharing your experience on this. Maybe I'll just put Kontakt 3 back in service and deal with other upgrades/replacements first.

[aMUSEd]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

not the piano type keys, but can't find that one

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

[Enkerli]

I'm a "learn by doing" kind of person, so I recommend that to other people. You can't usually hurt anything by making mistakes while experimenting. I know many people aren't comfortable with that and want to be guided through unfamiliar territory. Still, how unfamiliar is Logic 10.4?

We’re almost on the same page, here. But to someone who’s fairly new to the DAW side of things (after dabbling in pre-DAW sequencers like Performer and M, back in the day), Logic can be pretty unfamiliar. Some of the basic stuff is rather intuitive, but many things are rather idiosyncratic. They’re taken for granted by Logic users, sounds like, but they’re not that obvious when you come to the software as an outsider. What things have to do with project settings? What feature are only accessible in the region inspector? How do Smart Tempo, Groove Tracks, Smart Quantize, the Ultrabeat instrument, and Flex Time all relate to one another? These may sound like simple things if you have a good idea of common workflows in Logic-like DAWs. You can just adapt your approach by learning the new stuff. But coming from other musicking practices, it’s like entering a very peculiar world.
Perhaps more importantly, it’s a bit hard to tell the extent of “what Logic can do”. One advantage of Ableton Live (or Bitwig Studio) is that there’s a well-established practice, which works for certain people or genres without being too limiting. Going through a series of tutorial really gave me a lot of insight about that process. With Logic, it’s a bit more like “here’s a toolkit that you can use to build any type of house; the materials are scattered all over the place but you should find what you need if you what it is”.
When you have a clear project and a bit of support, it’s really very neat to explore all the corners of the platform and find things you didn’t expect. In that case, your project is the backbone for the whole thing. You hear what you want to achieve and you find ways to make it work, hopefully asking exactly the one narrow type of question that forum dwellers would expect.
A completely different approach could be to read the manual, in a linear way (“front to back”). That could work very well if you’re trying to train yourself to become a kind of expert with that particular piece of software. It’s kind of the “certification” route, and it can indeed make sense for a DAW used in a formal context.

There’s also room for high quality tutorials. The kind which is really inspiring, stimulating, fun, insightful. The tutorial for Sonic Pi is a great example. Real gamechanger, for me. Had a big impact on my approach to digital musicking. Allowed me to ask myself the questions which really help in my practice. Was able to do workshops from it and empower learners of diverse ages to find themselves out as musickers. (Of course, that tutorial is an Open Educational Resource in Open Access, just like the platform itself which is Free Software and uses Open Content.)

My guess is that there must be something like this out there for Logic, including with recent versions of the DAW.

[Enkerli]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

When you change the scale, it switches to this view.

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

Ditto. But it should work with the Animoog app (or Model 15) through IDAM, no?

[Enkerli]

It's the first time I tried the Logic Remote keyboard (I have a Linnstrument). It does seem something is not right with Sculpture. I think the MPE is working, however, the pitch range is very small (even though set correctly) so you hardly hear it. Over an octave slide is less than a half step. Even just a single note does not pitchbend the correct amount. Changing the pitch range on Sculpture seems to have no effect.

Alchemy works as expected.

I also tried the Fretboard with Sculpture and that bends as expected.

Oh i couldn't get independent pitch bends at all in Sculpture. If you are getting even a little bit, that's more than what i experienced. Though when i set up EXS24 or ES2 with MIDI Mono Mode, the range was huge. The setting for pitch bend range in the instrument might be responsible for this, but i don't see why it was dramatically different from patch to patch when they were all set to 48 semitones.

EDIT: Logic Remote is the only controller i have that can do MPE. i am hoping to eventually get that one iPad synth from Jordan Rudess' software developer, to use as an MPE MIDI controller, and ultimately i want something like a Roli Seaboard. But for now, i'd be happy if Logic's Logic Remote would work consistently for this purpose just in Logic.

Can you get a the correct pitchbend with Sculpture even with just 1 note?

Sounds like there might be something strange in Sculpture about “Bender” range vs. pitchbend. Can’t remember what eventually worked for me with one of my MPE controllers. But there might be some support page somewhere about this specific thing.
Sounds to me like the other dimensions of MPE do work normally in Sculpture, even with Logic Remote.

[machinesworking]

Some of the basic stuff is rather intuitive, but many things are rather idiosyncratic. They’re taken for granted by Logic users, sounds like, but they’re not that obvious when you come to the software as an outsider.

The biggest UI flaw or hurdle for new users IMO in Logic is also the flaw in Reaper, in that the in/out of a MIDI track is not transparent. Compared to DP and Live which both show you the MIDI in and out port and channel without any room for error, Logic is byzantine with it's Click and Ports layer, unmentioned soft synth port limitation, keyboard control by selection etc. None of this is noticeable if you only use one keyboard for Logic though.

[pdxindy]

It's 100% not pointless semantics. One means free, one costs money. If you want people to follow what you're saying you don't mix up terms that are universal at this point in the DAW communities. What you're trying to say is Logic and Zebra 2 have been amazing products for you with updates equivalent to other developers paid upgrades.

You might not like where Live went with updates, but the improvements to Simpler alone would be an upgrade in other DAWs. The improvements are vast, especially if you own Push. https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-9/

It's pointless semantics when referring to upgrades being automatically bigger and more significant than updates. That was what the discussion was about. These days, some updates are what used to be upgrades. Since there is no difference for sure, I think a better language choice is just to use 1 word... update, and when it is paid, say paid update. That more accurately describes the current situation... which has changed over time.

[pdxindy]

You are purposefully spreading false information. Logic 9 and Logic X were paid version upgrades. Points updates like with most DAWs are free of course. A point update is obviously very different to a version upgrade. So please do not purposely mislead.

Getting free point updates is industry standard practice. Live had them for five years. What is not standard is paying full price for new version upgrades.

The App Store model works fine for consumers. Developers and users adjust and new practices arrive. You are describing a past which has been changing. Now there are many apps that give significant new functionality in point updates. A point update is no longer 'obviously very different'. Sometimes, like with Logic 10.4 there is no difference at all... except it is given for free. And it is often that multiple point updates combined are as big as paid upgrades. Affinity Designer has had multiple point updates since it first was released and if you combine them all, it would easily exceed a paid upgrade... only real difference, users get all that capability for free.

Also, the paid upgrade to Live 10 costs more than Logic costs new. So that point also has no meaning.

[aMUSEd]

Logic is byzantine with it's Click and Ports layer, unmentioned soft synth port limitation, keyboard control by selection etc. None of this is noticeable if you only use one keyboard for Logic though.

Yeah, I have several midi ins and consequently clicks and ports is a complete mess, just a jumble of input names and no way to separate one from the other

[pdxindy]

Can you get a the correct pitchbend with Sculpture even with just 1 note?

I'm not sure. It seems much more subtle than ES2, for example, but I've not measured the shift. I was more focused on the MPE aspect than on the pitchbend's accuracy.

Unless the problem is different for each of us, it is the pitchbend that has the problem... making it appear that MPE is not working.

[machinesworking]

It's pointless semantics when referring to upgrades being automatically bigger and more significant than updates. That was what the discussion was about. These days, some updates are what used to be upgrades. Since there is no difference for sure, I think a better language choice is just to use 1 word... update, and when it is paid, say paid update. That more accurately describes the current situation... which has changed over time.

You're using your own definitions for these things, that's the issue. In every computer music based forum for every DAW I've used and general forums like this, upgrade has meant paid, update has meant free.

Yes, some DAWs updates are better than other DAWs upgrades, but that doesn't change the fact that those terms have specific meanings in colloquial conversations related to music production software. And no, I do not think it would be a good idea to have to scan every article on an 'update' to find out if it's a free 'update' or a paid one because you think the terms are interchangeable because a couple DAW companies offer really good updates.

There is nothing wrong with being precise.

[v1o]

You are purposefully spreading false information. Logic 9 and Logic X were paid version upgrades. Points updates like with most DAWs are free of course. A point update is obviously very different to a version upgrade. So please do not purposely mislead.

Getting free point updates is industry standard practice. Live had them for five years. What is not standard is paying full price for new version upgrades.

The App Store model works fine for consumers. Developers and users adjust and new practices arrive. You are describing a past which has been changing. Now there are many apps that give significant new functionality in point updates. A point update is no longer 'obviously very different'. Sometimes, like with Logic 10.4 there is no difference at all... except it is given for free. And it is often that multiple point updates combined are as big as paid upgrades. Affinity Designer has had multiple point updates since it first was released and if you combine them all, it would easily exceed a paid upgrade... only real difference, users get all that capability for free.

Also, the paid upgrade to Live 10 costs more than Logic costs new. So that point also has no meaning.

It is not true that with Logic Pro there is no difference between an update and an upgrade. There is actually a very clear rationale behind the way they do things and there is a roadmap they follow. A version upgrade will always be major change to the app, usually changes under the hood to the underlying engine. Also features which aren’t quite ready at release time will get implemented in point updates.

Logic X for example; simplified the entire workflow, changed the keyboard shortcuts, changed the UI, brought in pitch editing, drummers & new midi fx. Logic 9 also introduced a new UI, a new audio engine and brought in elastic Audio.

To be fair Affinity Photo and Designer haven’t had drastic changes beyond what the developers always initially promised. Affinity Photo 2 will definitely be a full price upgrade. Look what the developer of Pixelmator has done with the new version of his app.